<p>My apology for jumping to the wrong conclusion that somehow this tragedy is related to the safety dance. Thanks for the correction.</p>
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<p>Coming right up:</p>
<p>[Yale</a> Daily News - Enforcement of alcohol rules varies widely](<a href=“http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/university-news/2005/02/10/enforcement-of-alcohol-rules-varies-widely/]Yale”>http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/university-news/2005/02/10/enforcement-of-alcohol-rules-varies-widely/)</p>
<p>Excerpts:</p>
<p>"This story, related by Columbia Vice President for Campus Life Marc Aspis, is just one entry in the canon of student tales of underage drinking and run-ins with authorities. The Barnard incident illustrates one end of the spectrum: a case where underage drinking landed a student in AA meetings. On the other end is the night last fall when Alessandro Presti '07 and his friends walked by the Yale Police station holding 40-ounce bottles of malt liquor. When Presti stumbled past an officer on patrol, the policeman simply nodded at the drunken students and kept walking.</p>
<p>The alcohol policies printed in the handbooks of each Ivy League university are essentially the same: underage drinking is prohibited by law and a student will face administrative punishment if he or she is caught intoxicated before turning 21 or serving alcohol to someone under 21. Yale is no exception – the gist of its alcohol policy is compliance with Connecticut state law. But even though on paper all the Ivies have similar rules, the enforcement of these rules varies significantly from campus to campus."</p>
<p>“Like at Yale and Brown, students at Columbia and Cornell are guaranteed amnesty for seeking medical attention. But students at Columbia and Cornell said other areas of alcohol policy are more strict than at Yale and Brown. Aspis said Columbia student organizations are required to comply with a long list of regulations and specifications in order to host parties.”</p>
<p>Lets not jump to conclusions as to how this young man died. Having said that…we can discuss the alcohol issue WITHOUT assuming that there’s any link between it and this young man’s death. </p>
<p>As I understand it, the difference between Yale and the other schools involved is what you have to do to host a “party” and what constitutes a “party.” </p>
<p>Three Harvard students wrote a letter about 7 or 8 years ago (just based on my memory) which was published in the Harvard Crimson. It said that Harvard lacked a vibrant social life and would have a better one if it removed the restrictions and functioned more like Yale. (The authors weren’t exactly wild and crazy types–and, yes, I know them or should say I knew them; I haven’t seen them in years).Harvard’s rules–at least at that time–was that you couldn’t have 20 or more students in a room without having to register in advance as a party. Get caught with 20 people in your room and you are subject to disciplinary action–or at least that was the case when the letter was written. </p>
<p>No such rule exists at Yale. It’s quite common for more than 20 people to gather in someone’s common room spontaneously. There are residential colleges in which certain favorite TV shows are watched by large groups of friends on a weekly basis as a study break. Nobody counts to see how many folks are there and nobody cares if some of them are drinking beer. </p>
<p>Now, it can be argued–and Harvard takes the position–that when 20 students get together in a room, especially if there’s alcohol involved, things can get out of control. </p>
<p>But it can also be argued that when there is a policy like that, social life suffers. It also tends to move the “fun” off campus, where it is more expensive, and the difference between haves and have nots matters more.</p>
<p>At least back then, at Harvard, the whole team could go out to a restaurant together after a game, but they couldn’t go back to someone’s room and order a pizza. You couldn’t have 20 students meet to watch the baseball playoffs together without registering as a party. You couldn’t have the College Republicans get together to watch a Presidential debate without registering in advance for a party.</p>
<p>While my info is most definitely anecdotal and second hand, I think I have a pretty good sense of the amount of drinking that goes on at all the Ivies. From what I know, Yale is far from being the Ivy with the most drinking. It’s not even a contender. (Harvard isn’t either. )</p>
<p>IMO, the kids who suffer most under the party policies of some of the stricter schools are the kids who drink, but rarely drink too much–and the kids who don’t have much money. Instead of watching the game in a common room with pizza and beer, the gang heads to a bar and watches it there. (And if you seriously believe that you can’t get into a bar in Cambridge unless you’re 21, you must believe in the tooth fairy.) </p>
<p>The Safety Dance is a residential-college sponsored party and thus it met all the red-tape requirements. So, the difference between the party policies at Harvard and Yale have zilch to do with the number of students who needed medical attention at the dance. </p>
<p>Not only do we not know how this young man died–there’s no indication that he got intoxicated at a “party” which wasn’t regulated at Yale but would not have taken place or would have been subject to regulation at Harvard.</p>
<p>I agree about not jumping to conclusions.</p>
<p>The original post and the little information that was initially released in the press seemed to imply a loose connection. It was acknowledged that the safety dance occurred a week earlier and was, therefore, not a direct cause. </p>
<p>The snippets of biographical information that are being reported and the comments by his peers seem to be at odds with the notion of a kid who was out of control. Though from this alone no one can really tell what the reality of the situation is. </p>
<p>The fact remains that a bright light has gone out and that he was someone’s child. It’s a tragedy no matter the cause–even if his behavior led to his death.</p>
<p>The discussion about alcohol policies is a natural progression and a valid one since this tendency toward excess exists everywhere to some extent, but I still don’t believe it’s the “norm” and that most kids conduct themselves that way regularly. </p>
<p>It is unfortunate that intelligence doesn’t preclude one from behaving stupidly. </p>
<p>Just last week, my D was in a car with some upperclasswomen/men on the way to a volunteer event when the conversation turned to the celebration of one young woman’s upcoming 21st birthday. She seemed excited and announced that she was going to go out and get “trashed” at a club --“woo hoo,” as the kids say. She asked others what they might want to do to celebrate their turning 21. The response was generally similar–some had loftier goals–like getting trashed someplace exotic rather than the local bar. When they asked my D (a soph) what she would do–she hesitated–and said she had no idea. She asked in return why they were so interested in going out to get drunk legally if they had been getting drunk all along. She didn’t see any difference. She said it didn’t seem all that special to celebrate a milestone by doing something you already do. The others had no responses. They couldn’t think of a single good reason for going out to get drunk on their birthdays. I guess this shows that when kids engage in this kind of behavior they don’t have any reason and they don’t really think about it either.</p>
<p>Certainly, I think schools have a responsibility to protect kids from themselves to the degree that they can. I think most would agree that a wink and a nod is not the way to handle this problem.</p>
<p>It would be a lot safer if they were all smoking the weak pot of yore. The worst thing that gave you was the munchies.</p>
<p>jonri,
Yale actually requires parties of more than 20 people to be registered at least 48 hours in advance, and if alcohol is to be served, one of the hosts registering the party has to be at least 21 and have a procedure in place for checking IDs.</p>
<p>Then I’m out of date and Yale’s regs are now substantially the same as Harvard’s.</p>
<p>What if the poor kid died of natural causes? If he had a heart defect? The cause of death has not been released.</p>
<p>It is indeed premature to speculate about the causes of death. But the Yale Daily News seems to want to hint at a connection between this young man’s death and alcohol, or at least use his death as a springboard for discussing alcohol abuse:
</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/u[/url][quote]niversity-news/2009/11/02/college-mourns-branford-sophomore/”>http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/u
[quote]
niversity-news/2009/11/02/college-mourns-branford-sophomore/</a></p>
<p>^^Absolutely. It’s hard to believe they would be so stupid as to do so unless they had some evidence to base it on.</p>
<p>My condelences to the family. This is so sad.</p>
<p>I agree about not jumping to conclusions about the cause of death. A few years ago I read about a young ballerina on a crash diet who died of a heart attack. </p>
<p>In general though, it would be a good idea to provide more alcohol and drug education. Personally, when my kid goes to college, if it’s not total abstinence, I’d prefer it to be pot than alcohol.</p>
<p>^I think it’s more about moderation and some self-respect rather than what you ingest. </p>
<p>My HS BF was a year ahead of me when he went off to Brown. I visited him there when I went north to look at colleges. He and his friends (a mix of everything from jocks to pre-meds) had “wine and cheese” type parties–really just smallish gatherings of people sitting around discussing books, issues, and life in general. Thought it was terribly sophisticated and it was certainly not what I expected to find. (…and, I’m sure things were different in other circles.)</p>
<p>I had a good friend at my college who confessed to me during our senior week of graduation festivities that he had squandered his time there by smoking pot everyday. He was pre-med, initially, but his mediocre grades cost him that dream. I really felt awful for him. He was such a nice person. I think he just succumbed to peer pressure and it hurt him more than it did his other friends. He was lucky to have graduated at all, because after just one semester, several kids kind of just disappeared (–probably didn’t go to class and flunked out.) But, I also had another friend who didn’t fare too well due to excessive partying, but managed to save himself–he went back to school after graduating for another year to earn second degree, a BS and then went to med school and is very successful and happy today. </p>
<p>Sometimes there’s a learning curve for people–some “get it” sooner than others.</p>
<p>It would be nice if there were a simple way for parents and schools alike to help kids get it sooner rather than later.</p>
<p>You have a point, califa. I’ve never heard of anyone smoking himself to death.</p>
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<p>It is how you look at it but most cases of lung cancer death, close to 90% in men, and 80% in women are caused by smoking.</p>
<p>I think if you read the Yale Daily News material carefully (and maybe look at the New Haven Register), you will see that what is being hinted at so broadly is not alcohol abuse.</p>
<p>kantianethicist–he did not go to a local HS, but to Philips Exeter.</p>
<p>Very touching tribute in the YDN.</p>
<p>^yes mommusic-marite posted as such in post #23–when i posted that --this info had not been made available yet</p>
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<p>I don’t know about YDN, but whenever a student dies at Harvard and The Crimson is at first very coy about reporting a suspected cause of death, it usually turns out to be a suicide.</p>
<p>So many people dying at Yale… Yikes.</p>
<p>[Yale</a> sophomore found dead in dormitory - The New Haven Register (nhregister.com)](<a href=“http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2009/11/02/blotter/doc4aeec42105e77546112134.prt]Yale”>http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2009/11/02/blotter/doc4aeec42105e77546112134.prt)</p>
<p>Now they’re saying he might have OD’d on drugs.</p>
<p>What a terrible thing for his family and friends.</p>