<p>dstark, can you clarify? graduate work at a tier 3 school: does it mean going to a tier 3 school for graduate work or graduating from a tier 3 college and going on to graduate school?</p>
<p>For the first, the answer is the program, not the school. Some public unis which are not considered strong all around may have a terrific program in one field or another. In grad school, admission committees are made up of faculty from individual departments; they won’t care if a student got a C in freshman biology if the student is applying to study Medieval Russian history or the poetry of John Donne.</p>
<p>Let’s say I have a 2.75 in econ. Aren’t there grad schools that will take me (for econ)?</p>
<p>For law school? How low can my gpa go and still be admitted to an accredited law school? I know it also depends on test scores, but how low can the gpa be?</p>
<p>dstark, judging from some of my in-laws, quite low. 3 stepchildren of my relative all ended up becoming lawyers, and all had attended a local college. Each person became committed to the field in their 20’s, and all seem to be doing better & better as time goes by.</p>
<p>A better question would be: why would you want to go to grad school in econ if all you could manage was C+? And why would any graduate program worth its name be willing to admit a C+ student?</p>
<p>Momcubed, FA calculation will change as your other kids start to go to college. So while your first son may not receive need-based aid at schools like MIT, your other kids may qualify. And your eldest son will be reconsidered as well.</p>
<p>There is a common misconception that as long as a student gets into a top graduate program, it matters little where the kid goes to college. For research-oriented graduate programs, that is not necessarily true. The top labs in top graduate programs are extremely hard to get into because of space limitation. A professor has his/her pick of entering graduate students. For example, not all graduate students in biology at Harvard can get into a top flight labs. That in turn dictates largely a student’s future because for a field like biological sciences, with whom you do your PhD dictates whether you can obtain a competitive postdoctoral position in a top flight lab, and so forth. Your pedigree does matter a great deal, and given that most top flight professors are extremely busy, the student’s pedigree may be the only factor in consideration. I can only write on what I know well, that is the biological science programs at MIT and PennState. Sadly, the two cannot be compared in the same tier.</p>
<p>Thanks padad (&marite for pm). It’s a lot to consider but my deep suspicion is padad is right and we will have to suck it up (there goes my dream to sit quietly on a beach or replace our 20 year old sofa or minivan with over 100,000 miles on it :)) As I have NO science background (I majored in poli-sci/english), I have no idea how this works - or for that matter, how I have a kid who can do math more sophisticated that addition/subtraction.</p>
<p>For graduate school in science, I always thought it was most important to work in a lab where the research is in a field which the student is very interested in, rather than focusing so much on the prestige of the school or being in a “top-flight lab”. By the time a student is ready to choose a thesis advisor in graduate school in science, he or she should have a very good idea of which lab is of interest. Personally, I transferred from an Ivy league graduate program to another program at a less prestigious school in the same city after my first year of graduate school. My specific interests had become much more focused during my first year of graduate school, and there were no professors working in this field in my department at the school I was attending. For personal reasons, I needed to stay in the same geographic area, so I found another program which I had actually not been aware of when I applied to graduate schools in college. I went on to a rewarding career in this field and am still working in the same field at this time, so everything worked out fine for me. (At least well enough that I, along with my husband, have been able to pay full tuition for two kids at private college, to bring this back to the orginal topic of this thread )</p>
<p>My closest friend, Phd Physics MIT, told me that there is an advantage to not going to a program that is top undergrad if the person wants to go to a top grad achool. His take is that the top 40 undergrad kids say MIT in physics could be better than even the top student at a state or a lesser known school. When all of these kids try to get into the best grad school the kid from the lesser known school often has as good or better shot for geographic spread considerations. Also, for grad schools in science/engineering recommends are a big deal and profs at lesser known schools often received their training and have contacts at top schools. Thus their top students often get in. This is why you see so many people from all sorts of places at top grad schools. Just his view, but it seemed like that too when I was in school back in the whale oil days.</p>
<p>momcubed, would the Stanford University Cancer Biology Phd. Program be a sufficient result for your kid after UG? Or how about The Human Genetics Phd. Program at Hopkins? That’s the destinations of the last two graduates (2005 and 2006) of the UG lab my daughter is already working in at her school as a freshman.</p>
<p>"I think the idea of students who are so overprepared by their demanding prep schools that they are bored when they get to the top colleges is largely a myth. "
And you are basing this on???
“But is there a way to test out of some of those gen ed requirements? Most of my gen ed requirements as a UC undergrad were waived/avoided by the test scores I came in with or APs”
As I said earlier, at many PRIVATE universities, [not UC"s] they want kids to pay tuition for 4-5 years. At USC, U of Chicago and many other colleges, incoming students take placement tests to help determine, along with AP scores where applicable, the classes students can take.</p>
<p>BTW, My D’s mentor in the lab , a junior, hasn’t decided yet where her specific interests will lead (she has several in both bio and chem) but as a Goldwater scholar, she feels she has a decent chance of getting into at least one Phd. program at a third tier toilet . I know after reading the posts on this thread that’s wishful thinking on her part , but …“you have to dream big”. ;)</p>
<p>I am not sure I understand all of this discussion about boring General Education requirements. At most of the schools I am familiar with, there are distribution requirements in several fields, such as humanities, math and science, social science, but not specific low-level survey courses that must be taken to fulfill these requirements. Any courses in these areas will do, so there is usually no need to take a boring intro course if a student is prepared and interested in a higher level course.</p>
<p>Momcubed,
Read my earlier post re gifted Son who is now hoping to transfer out of Big U where he received merit $$$ to Smaller U that was always the perfect fit for his quirky, gifted personality. Don’t do as our family did. Find a way to let you son go to MIT.</p>
<p>I also believe that the type of research drives the grad school choice for graduates. There is great research going on in a great # of grad school labs but each school has their specialties.</p>
<p>My son is at Penn State and the nice thing is that there is so much different research going on he will have a good chance of finding something that really excites him by the time he is ready for grad school. As a freshman he doesn’t have the knowledge base yet.</p>
<p>MIT over Penn State easily though with the description of your son’s personality.( of course, it’s easy to spend your money)
Cornell would have beeen the very best place for my son but it was$45,000 vs. $0.</p>
<p>Cur, my post was intended to address what you just posted. There is a world of difference between labs at the programs you cited. Students want to get into labs that publish in Cell, Nature and Sceince. Those labs are extremely competitive to get into. It is not the program that matters, it is the lab and the “in” research topic. Cancer biology is a vast field but there are a set of “in” tpoics.</p>
<p>Mof 2
“boring”
referred to some exceptionally well prepared students [often from top prep schools] who are required to take Gen ed classes that they find are just a repeat of material they took in HS. Hence they are bored.</p>
<p>padad, which labs at the two programs I mentioned are worthwhile/exceptional in your opinion? After you give me the list , I’ll birddog the kids and see if they are in one of them. (Answer quickly and no fair peeking. I wouldn’t want you to screen the labs for Rhodes kids just to make your point. LOL)</p>
<p>For those of you, parents and students, wrestling with the dilemma- merit money- prestige, you might want to take a look at the Grad School Forum on CC. For the most part there are very knowledgeable, helpful applicants sharing what lies ahead for MANY OF YOU in two or three short, fast years.</p>
<p>Also, for those of you deciding which ‘offer’ to accept. Google " XYC college job placement 2005" - that data will lead you to grad school, med and law school data for that school.</p>
<p>And, for those “old time CCers”- remember when this topic generated same number of passionate posts three years ago, when EvilRobert-put a name, face and heart on the discussion- after PAGES and PAGES of debate, he selected Vandy, over Yale, and never looked back. I miss the good ole’ days when this brought out the VERY best of CCers.<br>
I miss him, although Curm, you do a great job of carrying the torch- even if you get burned now and then.</p>
<p>Curm:
Your post is exactly why this is a difficult decision! We know there are great opportunities out there and that one doesn’t have to be at an HYPSM to achieve wonderful things. However, we know nothing of science/grad school inner workings and the advice here is often wonderful and based on experience. There are no guarantees in life - it’s just knowing how the game is played that can help it along. Thanks again.</p>
)</p>
I wouldn’t want you to screen the labs for Rhodes kids just to make your point. LOL)</p>