<p>So reflectivemom, are you saying Curmudgeon’s kid should have taken the SAT too because a 35 on the ACT isn’t exactly the same as a 1580?</p>
<p>Our kids now have to get into the top 1% on both tests?</p>
<p>And a person in the top 1% is smarter than a person in the top 2%?</p>
<p>I’m not too thrilled with your response.</p>
<p>By the way. His kid got into Yale. I know that is important for some people. Some kind of validation.</p>
<p>Curmudgeon, we can’t pay full fare either. But there’s still a big difference between paying your full EFC at a higher-ranked school vs. attending the fourth-tier public where the cost is zero and the school even puts money into your pocket each semester.</p>
<p>Rhodes is not a 100% of need school. They gap . I don’t know but most of her schools did gap. Most schools do. Yale and Amherst didn’t gap and their offers were above our EFC. I would assume that in most cases Rhodes, Centre, Hendrix, Millsaps, etc would be less generous “on average”. </p>
<p>I did want to make the point and I hope I did that D seriously considered schools not on the U.S. News Top 100 lists of either uni’s or lac’s as she wanted a small environment. Had her scores been lower and we felt there wasn’t a good chance for merit aid at a private she would have looked also at Stephen S. Austin in Texas. I believe that is a fourth tier school. </p>
<p>If we had been able to afford private elite U.G. and med school for D without debilating debt forboth of us, I believe D’s schiool list would have been a lot different. Is that what you are asking?</p>
<p>Check again reflectivemom. I looked it up at the time. 99th percentile for females. Look it up on their site.</p>
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<p>For what has to be the 100th time , I advised Yale. She picked Rhodes. What in the hell are you talking about? How many times do I have to repeat it? I didn’t chose anything.</p>
<p>Edit: I’m still waiting for the contradictory post I wrote. Where is it? I won’t let it drop. Put up or shut up.</p>
<p>momrath - good point. Thanks. However, in my inital post I mentioned that my son had the “package” to be competitive anywhere/everywhere. However, I also mentioned that I understood that having the package and getting admitted were two very different things. </p>
<p>Sadly, I also posted the following:</p>
<p>“I realize each kid is different - in ability and personality type (temperament) with different needs. I am not judging other kids’ abilities/needs and I hope others won’t judge mine.”</p>
<p>Obviously too much to ask for on this listserve!</p>
<p>curmudgeon - go back and read my initial post #176. I never criticized your daughter or her choices or your methodology. I clearly stated that his preferences were exactly that - his.</p>
<p>But, it appears that you read “criticism” when anyone has a different methodology.</p>
<p>Oh, and now you’re pulling out the special chart for females - what happened to “girl power” and how your daughter could outperform any male??? But, you didn’t answer my question - if 740/730 was such a wonderful score - why work so hard to hide it?</p>
<p>reflectivemom, are you saying it was good strategy to submit both scores to Yale and Amherst when she didn’t need to submit both? That you would have? Please. Nobody believes you would have. BTW D did submit both to every school except Yale , Duke, Colgate , and Amherst. Those were all done on the last day possible and we would have had to pay extra to send the SAT scores which were not required. Obviously not a big deal in your house but…with app fees, ACT fees etc it meant someting to us. And anyway, why would anyone do that?</p>
<p>radioactive mom, your rudeness woke me up. really, you would be better off contemplating your son’s competitive package than peering over the fence at the neighbors. I for one am mightly impressed by the dimensions of your pettiness. hope it doesn’t run in the family.</p>
<p>Reflectivemom, my personal experience has been that people who spend a lot of time dwelling on either their (or their kid’s) IQ scores or SAT scores don’t have much else to talk about. I don’t know what your son has or has not done in terms of his other activities or achievements, but I do know that SAT scores are just about the least important thing the elite colleges look at when it comes to selecting their class. Yes, those scores get most applicants through the door – but when they are selecting the students who will actually get in, they are looking at grades (including class rank) and other accomplishments and abilities. They like kids who perform at or near the top of their class; they also like kids who have a demonstrated record of accomplishing something. They also look at the scores in context of where the kid comes from – so basically the tipply-top test scores are a very good way of differentiating among kids who come from those super-competitive high schools that end up with 40 some odd valedictorians. They seem to be a lot more lenient in evaluating kids from public schools in states where average reported scores are lower. </p>
<p>The GPA & other accomplishments come first – for the elite colleges – because the kids who are highly motivated and willing to work for their goals are the ones who will take advantage of what the elite has to offer. </p>
<p>I say this as the parent of a kid who was a National Merit scholar but did not do particularly well in college. </p>
<p>I don’t know what else your son has going for him, since you seem to be focused only on the scores – but I suspect that you may be the parent of a high scorer who doesn’t rank too well in his school, probably with uneven performance, perhaps doing really well in the classes that interest him, letting things slide if he finds the subject boring or doesn’t like the teacher. I’m not condemning your son if he happens to fit that profile – rather, I’m guessing based on the fact that my son was the same way. Ranked about 11% at his high school. His NM status got him some free ride offers at second-rate colleges and universities, but it didn’t get him money or entrance into the elites. (he didn’t apply to Ivies in any case). He did choose to attend a top-50 LAC, but his learning style did not serve him well in college. Fortunately, 3 years in the work force seems to have given him the discipline he lacked when he started college… and I do have to acknowledge that it just takes longer for some people to grow up than others. </p>
<p>If your son wants to narrow down his choices based on test scores, that’s great. But if he doesn’t have the grades to go along with the scores - then he isn’t going to get into the elites. And if he does choose colleges based on test scores – and gets in – he may be in for another surprise: the scores don’t tell you anything about the type of students at the school. It’s just a number. Many smart, intellectual kids score high. Many don’t. Many fairly bright, hard-working kids score high. Many don’t. Many rather uninteresting kids, motivated primarily by parental pressure, also score high. And many don’t. You don’t know. </p>
<p>There is no need for you to put down those who don’t happen to have the scores. As I have said, my daughter had weak scores, but she is at an elite college, and she definitely belongs there. She had no problem getting into several top schools – I think that where the scores made the difference was simply that she wasn’t competitive for the sorts of scholarships at less-prestigious, merit-awarding schools that Curmudgeon’s daughter could qualify for. A kid probably does need high scores for those full ride offers, at least for academic scholarships.</p>
<p>reflectivemom, reflect on this - D didn’t even plan on retaking her ACT test at all. She was talked into by me because several posters on this site explained to me that it would put her in better stead for merit money. Like everything else it’s in the archives. Look it up. I live out loud. She had a made a 32 because she made a 26 science after missing almost an entire graph bsed section on clouds and dewpoints. But for that she’d have had a 34 on test one and she would have never retaken. She prepped less than 10 hours over the course of the 3 tests. Her prep was the sample tests from Ten Reals and the materials provided by the test companies. That’s it.</p>
<p>And yes, a 35 is a 1580. You can look that up, too. The makers of the SAT says so and I don’t think they are a fan of the ACT.</p>
<p>So far I’ve allowed as how this site taked her into applying to elites, and retaking a test she thought she did great on even with the 32. It might be interesting to note that despite the advice from here through me, she steadfastly refused to take the SAT Subject Tests.</p>
<p>BTW, Where’s the contradictory post?</p>
<p>
How about it parents, should he turn it down for need based at Yale , or what about at another elite that has loans, workstudy, and/or a summer contribution for everybody? ;)</p>
<p>(psst. Still waiting, reflectivemom. I see your lights are still on. LOL. )</p>
<p>Could you guys please stop poking each other in the eyes with sharp sticks? It’s starting to make the rest of us wince (those of us who haven’t already run away, that is).</p>
<p>I was really hoping when this thread started out so promisingly that it wouldn’t devolve into an argument about SAT scores and focus solely on elite schools. There actually are some of us wrestling with the “top scholarship” vs “more top school” dilemmas whose children may wave in passing to elite schools when the train goes past them, but who will never approach them as homes during their academic careers. Yet these kids are bright and creative and witty conversationalists, too, and are having some of the same angsty nights making the same “which should I choose?” decisions. I want to hear from more of those kids, or the parents of those kids: how can we help them decide where they are likely to be happy for the next four years? For us, money isn’t an issue, but the money feels like love to my son, and maybe he’s right? I am highly conflicted…</p>
<p>curmudgeon - I’m not saying anything about your strategy - many colleges not only allow such gamesmanship -they encourage such - and your daughter is playing withing the rules. </p>
<p>I seriously doubt that my son will bother with the ACT.</p>
<p>curmudgeon, the contradictory post was my mistake. </p>
<p>I did not regard the SAT scores you posted as top 1%. Didn’t think you would differentiate between male/female abilities - especially after all your previous posts to the contrary.</p>
<p>mootie. It was going good but as usual got derailed. I wanted to focus on the what would the kid finds after he takes the scholarship. Hence the title of the thread. **What’s Next? ** It just seems that some folks can’t grasp that anyone would ever make the choice that puts a kid in that situation. I’m doing my best to explain it. Maybe I shouldn’t .</p>
<p>reflectivemom, thanks for the admission. We all make mistakes. Attack my smarts, but don’t go at my honesty. I’m not smart enough to lie and get away with it.
</p>
<p>On the “my kid can beat any boy” posture. I probably have said that a lot, in fact I KNOW I have ;), but not on this thread or recently that I can remember. Maybe in jest? I dunno. My kid was raised by her mom and I not to back down from any male, or even to show them any deference. She learned well. It will serve her in the boardroom or operating room. It does make her less popular for dating. ;)</p>
<p>"many colleges not only allow such gamesmanship -they encourage such - "
???
reflectivemom- what’s with you? Suddenly your posts are like a Dr. Jeckle-Mr. Hyde flip-flop. Why so surly? You say you are not saying anything about Cur’s strategy, and with your next breath you call in “gamesmanship”, which I doubt anyone would take as anything but a sarcastic remark. Chill. Sheesh.</p>
<p>calmom </p>
<p>You are wrong on every one of your assumptions about my son. Not a surprise to me. Most of the “anti SAT parents” enjoy painting an unattractive picture of high scorers. Check out the research - it isn’t compatible with your conclusion. </p>
<p>I can only think you posted such because I hit some “nerve” - seems like there’s a lot of that going around. </p>
<p>I posted that my son has found the best predictor of compatible students for HIM to be “ability” as measured/approximated by SAT scores. I could have said he wants with the highest percentage of valedictorians - no one would have blinked. Even though I explained how his preference is probably more related to personality type than anything else - anytime the issue of “ability” is raised - certain people are offended. </p>
<p>I clearly stated that I was not judging other’s preferences and I hoped other’s didn’t judge mine. </p>
<p>Imagine my surprise to find a barb in curmudgeon’s post. What a surprise - NOT! It appears that anyone who supports SAT scores eventually gets flamed. </p>
<p>BTW, I did state that I questioned whether the difference in SAT’s between those found at elite ivies and some state schools would be worth paying the full cost at a select school. Not exactly the words of someone choosing a school for the highest scores.</p>
<p>What’s really surprising is that if someone supports high SAT scores - they are considered rude and intolerant. But, others can make the most glaring insults about those who score well and no one bats an eye.</p>
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<p>They’d have jumped on you like a duck on a junebug. And even though my kid was a val , I’d have been there with them. LOL. Just like my kid is an uber scorer and I am with the anti -SAT/ACT only folks. It’s holistic that I support. Just like I am supporter of my D’s decision to attend Rhodes over Yale , yet I disagreed with it. Just like I support alu on her student body excellence is A legitimate cosideration (among many) to go to an elite school threads (now those are bitter. alu and I were fighting for our lives or so it seemed) but my kid doesn’t go to an elite. I object to the “all or nothing folks” , almost every time. I like the middle ground. The radical middle. The extremes, I don’t like much.</p>
<p>"1. 5% of student body receives financial aid that averages $500/yr</p>
<ol>
<li>75% of student body receives financial aid that averages $35,000/yr.</li>
</ol>
<p>Then there is me. I don’t get any financial aid."</p>
<p>dstark: In that case we wouldn’t be having this thread. I don’t think even curm’s daughter would have gone to Rohdes if she had to pay full sticker at Yale and Rhodes. :)</p>