<p>JHS, if we didn’t think that there were benefits to the elite college experience, we’d have encouraged DS to take a merit package. H and I do think that the undergraduate degree matters – or COULD matter – even for science, engineering or pre-med. It’s just difficult to quantify. There are many paths to a successful life, but we felt that some were safer or easier than others. It doesn’t mean that graduates of less selective colleges can’t be successful – but those who earn a degree from an elite college have already jumped through some hoops. Hence, we went for the Ivy option.</p>
<p>In engineering, I think it depends on the specific type of engineering, career path, and location. School name seems to matter more on the east coast than west. In the mid-west it was all about Notre Dame. My husband has a graduate degree in math, from a public U. It hasn’t held him back, but I think his path would have been easier if it had been from Caltech or MIT. In fact, in his current field, the school name matters a lot, although more at the graduate than undergrad level. This is an organization that looks for nationally recognized experts in their fields – oftentimes, that means from better known schools. </p>
<p>It just seemed easier (although not financially) to let S1 get the name degree. We think it will provide some shortcuts.</p>
<p>JHS There are many more smart, driven people than can fit into the ivy’s. It’s a big world with research going on everywhere. Big findings are coming out of many schools and research institutes not just a few. There is just too much data and too much ability to think only a handful of people are uber successful. Thats my take.</p>
<p>I know many very successsful engineers/managers. They have no time for co- horts who throw around their school names. For them it’s “show me.” What you did last year doesn’t count either; you better be on top of things and be able to work with a group or you lose respect pretty quickly.</p>
<p>simba, calmom: I knew a geologist back in 1981 who getting about 100k per month off some oil field he had found. He drove a 15 year old car and read books from the used book store and I think got his wardrobe from Kmart. I asked him if was gever going to spend the money. He didn’t know. He just liked being a geologist and exploring. Remember Robert Service …“It isn’t the gold that I’m wanting as much as just finding the gold…” I do not know what his philosophy was regarding paying for his kids college later on. Money sure did not seem to complicate his life though.</p>
<p>JHS, I don’t think you can make general statements. </p>
<p>I know somebody who is very high up at UCSF. She went to UC Davis (which I always thought was a great school until I came to CC :)).</p>
<p>In California, I would bet that many top doctors went to UCs.
In Oregon, many top doctors went to U of O.
In Ohio, Ohio State and Miami of Ohio.</p>
<p>I think geography, where you live, plays a large part on where you go to college. </p>
<p>Even today.</p>
<p>JHS, I’m turning your question around.</p>
<p>Now this is just a statement. It doesn’t mean everybody. Some people will think these adjectives are very positive. </p>
<p>My daughter doesn’t like to be in classes with pre-med students.
She says they are intense, stressed, hard-working, very concerned with grades, not as social, and set the curve very high.</p>
<p>JHS, I read your lyrics.
We wouldn’t have been friends in college. :)</p>
<p>sjmom: As a person on the engineering steering committee at ND told me" We always wanted to be like Michigan. We even had hoped to join the big ten just to be able to benefit from their eng program". Having said that the ND family is quite a network for jobs etc.</p>
<p>Anecdotal evidence on the impact of undergraduate degrees in computer science. The four top people I now work with have degrees from: a) a university in Taiwan with a PhD from an Ivy b) San Jose State NO grad degree c) UC Santa Cruz NO grad degree and d) Colorado College PhD from Cornell…</p>
<p>But comp sci was pretty much a black art in those days, so perhaps it mattered less then where anyone went to school and much more what they did when they got out. In other words, in those days at least, brilliant learning was just as likely to happen in a cubicle as in a lab or lecture since nobody really understood what they were inventing at that point.</p>
<p>Well, depending on their age, the CS department could have been part of the math department. It is easier to evaluate someone’s performance in math or engineering through on-the-job performance. That’s why I’ve said that H’s public U background hasn’t hurt him. It also hasn’t helped him, especially as he’s risen to more senior positions.</p>
<p>" I also want to ask – and I mean, really, ask – about the common theme that it doesn’t matter where MDs and engineers do their undergraduate work."</p>
<p>Sure, it can matter. It just doesn’t matter enough to outweigh the burden of $100,000 in additional debt, if that’s what it will cost your family. That kind of debt limits your options to the point that your ambitions to cure AIDS won’t necessarily matter; you’ll have to follow the money.</p>
<p>(Am I the only 80’s TV dork who remembers Doogie Howser’s dilemma when, as a 16-year-old resident, he was offered a cushy job at the Brentwood Pediatric Group? He decided to stay in brutal, underpaying academic medicine instead, but if he’d had tons of undergrad debt, he’d have had to take the job. And then where would we be?)</p>
<p>dstark,
“UC Davis (which I always thought was a great school until I came to CC )”
LOL</p>
<p>"I think geography, where you live, plays a large part on where you go to college. "
So true. In California it’s certainly no shame to go to the big state U! In fact, my H, with a Phd from a big UC often got more recognition than his Cornell counterpart… people world over have heard of Berkeley; Cornell not as much even given its Ivy satus.</p>
Not saying her estimation is wrong dstark, but wouldn’t this be just as applicable to any student in any field that planned to attend a grad or pro school that had demanding entry requirements and more butts than they have seats to accomodate? Nothing special about med school.</p>
<p>As I remember law school admissions it wasn’t any different in those classes favored by pre-laws. Pre -psychD students? Potential Phd. History kids? There were gunners everywhere but admittedly some are more clustered in particular classes (and this may be what she’s talking about). </p>
<p>Ever play musical chairs? That’s what it’s like. You don’t want to be left without a chair. Or a chair in the Carribean. ;)</p>
<p>BTW my D would cheerily admit to 1,3,4 without the qualifier “very”, and 6 every time she can. She would also tell you that at her school there is a very cooperative learning scene happening, in both labs and study sessions and a lot of group projects assigned to foster that atmosphere.</p>
<p>Just think in about 4 weeks this may be over and many of us will say good bye to college CC…and get back to being productive citizens! I think I will miss this thread the most.
We are off in two days for the final whirlwind college tour. S all paid for. Me not so paid for…decision probably by tada! April 1…Maybe not such a good day…tada! April 2. I hope.</p>
<p>I have many thoughts and experience about this issue with a junior and graduating senior. Both were accepted to the best schools applying Early Decision. While financial aid was important, getting into their first choice school mattered more.</p>
<p>1.Applying Early Decision had NO effect on their financial aid award any year. The awards from the schools that DO NOT give merit aid far exceeded our expectations. Both kids also received ENORMOUS merit aids from outside sources for all four years. These awards were not announced until May and were based partly on the cost of their schools. If they had applied Regular Decision, they would not have received these merit awards which totaled close to $100,000.00</p>
<p>2.Being at these top schools, whether we had paid full price or what we did, was IMMEASURABLE in the enormous advantages, connections, the value of exposure to other bright and gifted and sophisticated kids and families. The kids have been taught by Nobel Prize winners and other equally brilliant faculty. There have been unbelievable on campus work experience, as well as great summer internships because they are at these elite schools.</p>
<p>3.I suspect there is grade inflation at the top schools, which is an advantage. My senior last week was accepted to Grad school at his elite with a very high GPA in one of the most difficult majors.</p>
<p>In my experience, the top schools, with or without the financial aid, are going to be MUCH more valuable in lots of different ways.</p>
<p>To the poster who says the “name” doesn’t matter, I disagree. Any colleague who knows you went to MIT, knows you are smart, going to contribute, work hard, etc. If you didn’t, you wouldn’t have gotten into MIT.</p>
<p>mom365: Good post but I think the last statement may be looked at a bit differently in that any one who was smart enough to get into MIT but did not go is probably going to exhibit characteristics that open many doors in spite of going to a school that is not as prestigious. That fits with my oldold experiences and observations in the places I have lived at here and abroad.</p>