<p>To be fair, I don’t really think “the legal profession” (the ABA) went berserk when Miers was nominated because she went to SMU. I think it went berserk because outside of Dallas no one had ever seen her do anything but be George W. Bush’s yes-woman, and more a manager than a lawyer. And because the whispers coming out of Washington, including from establishment Republicans, were that she wasn’t, you know, smart. If she had been a judge, if she had had some prominent public role, SMU wouldn’t have made any difference, and without those things Harvard wouldn’t have been enough, either. Although it might have helped her, as it helped Sandra O’Connor in a similar position, to have more law school buddies who were Democrats in high places.</p>
<p>Alumother, as I said, I was NOT pointing a finger at you or anyone else – I was trying to explain why the subtext of the message can be hurtful or inadvertently insensitive. For example – and I don’t remember which parent did this and I’m pretty sure it was NOT you – early on in this thread someone mentioned “values” and “valuing” education, implying: parents who truly value education will be willing to spend the big bucks.</p>
<p>Seven years ago my son had his heart set on Reed, which though not elite would have provided a great deal of challenge and a very high quality education. He got in, but they offered no financial aid at all, even though our EFC was about $12K. They said that he qualified for a need-based grant of about $15K, but they had run out of money, and they would put him on a waiting list for financial aid, and promise to meet full need in future years, and even offered to let us double deposit to hold his spot there. It would have cost us $30K for that year. He elected to go to his 2nd choice, a LAC that offered a $22K grant and was ranked better than Reed but didn’t have Reed’s notoriously difficult academic philosophy. It was a very, very close choice between #2 LAC and UC Berkeley, which offered need-based aid only but still would have cost us somewhat less. </p>
<p>As everyone who has followed my story knows, son dropped out of LAC #2 after 2 years. Did I feel guilty about saying no to the $30K bill at Reed at the time? Kind of. Do I regret it now? Some part of me always wonders whether the extra structure at Reed would have avoided some of the “slacking off” issues that were his downfall at LAC #2… but the flip side of the coin is that it’s very possible that Reed would have been even worse for him with his on-again, off-again learning style. I really think, in hindsight, that he would have been better off to have chosen the 2nd-tier LAC #4 on his list, the safety that offered him a lot of money, because that school would have afforded more of a safety net for him, and also because LAC #4 was the first place he tried to apply to as a transfer.</p>
<p>padad - I see your point but PSU gets only 10% from the state (explains why the tuition is so high). The honors college is largely funded by private grants - over 50 million so far from Mr Schreyer himself. The scholarships are modest (3500). We were also lucky enough to gain access to other outside scholarships sponsored by external foundations.
It does seem to be a fine program and attracts many top students who go on to get positive recognition for the University. I can see how some might have a problem with it. But it’s what’s here in our state - and as a parent of a top student - and one who doesn’t have unlimited cash - I think we would have a pretty hard time ignoring the opportunity. Do you really think Wake or Lehigh would be worth 3 or 4 times the cost? In our case, the answer was NO. We can only go with the choices in front of us. Actually, I really wish we lived in VA or NC - would make things a lot easier I think.</p>
<p>Calmom, other than a handful of heirs, I don’t know many who had money “handed” to them. You’re clearly an intellegent woman and a graduate of a top law school, I have to assume if you valued having more money you could make more. Most 1st year associates at top firms would not qualify for need based aid.</p>
<p>It is just silly to say values are not at the core here. Some clearly value sending their child to their choice of colleges and others do not have it at the top of the list of what’s important to them. They believe their child could get a good education many places. Not good or bad, no judgement, but it is personal values. Values that are a result of background, eperience, exposure, etc.</p>
<p>I have friends who still live likes it’s the depression because it was a core value instilled in them as a child. I also have friends who have a hard time seeing past HYP because their kids are 4th generation at these schools. Core value from childhood visits to the schools.</p>
<p>There are rich people who won’t pay $45K and middle class people who spend what to some is an unreasonable amount given their income.</p>
<p>toneranger:</p>
<p>I apologize, too, by the way. You are right, and I was not respectful enough of others. And, no, I don’t think Wake or Lehigh would be worth 3 times the cost of Penn State; I would probably pick Penn State straight up against either (but I don’t know that much about WF). Everything’s relative.</p>
<p>Kirmum, we are on CC. How many people here don’t value education at the top of the list? Who are these people? Everyone that would choose to educate their child differently than you?</p>
<p>I am not generalizing to all students who attend Wake and Lehigh, but I am positive that the students from my two kids’ high school classes who attended those two schools (about 5 kids total) would not have been admitted to Schreyer Honors College.</p>
<p>Katliamom, from my post # 301
</p>
<p>From #306
</p>
<p>From #543,
</p>
<p>Of course I see the problem from the perspective of my son’s experience! Every other poster does the same thing. When we talk about ER, are we not generalizing to other kids? (Bad example, by the way, because I don’t see Vanderbilt as a compromise for him.) </p>
<p>If you had read any of my other posts, you’d know that my husband and I are first generation college grads, and that my parents were immigrants. We don’t come from a privileged background. By the way, I’m not sure we CAN afford what we are doing. It feels pretty risky right now. But if you don’t want to hear from the point of view of those who made a different choice than Curmudgeon’s D, then why have this thread at all?</p>
<p>After reading some of the new posts, here is what I’d like to see. Some posts by people who made this decision ten years ago. Who have seen the impact of their decisions on grad school and in careers. </p>
<p>If the question is just whether kids can be happy at their merit school, I think we’ve seen the answer is a clear yes. But what next was the question. The kids in college are at their one college with little basis for comparison of peer group, classes or anything else. More research opportunities is tangible perhaps, but we really have little idea of what these go getter kids could have made happen in other places.</p>
<p>Dstark, it’s not about valuing education. It’s what you value within educational options. Of course everyone here values education.</p>
<p>Momof2, Schreyer is the gold standard as far as honors colleges go. While some other public u’s honors program may be as good, i doubt that any are better. Penn State can be proud of this.</p>
<p>A friend’s daughter is a Schreyer scholar and after a bumpy start socially, she is now doing very well and enjoying all PSU has to offer.</p>
<p>toneranger, College choices are personal in nature. They are no right or wrong. It is not without self-doubts though, in large part becuase we all love our children more than our brain can ever rationalize.</p>
<p>“It is just silly to say values are not at the core here. Some clearly value sending their child to their choice of colleges and others do not have it at the top of the list of what’s important to them.”</p>
<p>“How many people here don’t value education at the top of the list? Who are these people? Everyone that would choose to educate their child differently than you?”</p>
<p>“it’s not about valuing education. It’s what you value within educational options. Of course everyone here values education.”</p>
<p>Kirmum, that’s not quite what I asked you, was it? </p>
<p>I know everyone here values education. Who here doesn’t value education at the top of the list?</p>
<p>You’ve read parts of the thread. Your friend has.
You’ve been on CC a long time.
Who values education less than you?</p>
<p>Who could value education more that a CCer, do you see the time some people have spent here over years! I’m sure it’s at or near the top of everyone here’s list, but what they value within the vast range of options is different.</p>
<p>In my house we value cars. I grew up withough one as did DH. He loves old cars like 50s Mustangs. I love new cars. I don’t even want to ride is his seat beltless “antiques” and he is unimpressed with my new ride. The two cars cost just about the same. Does one of us value cars more?</p>
<p>sjmom, I owe you a HUGE apology. A huge, PUBLIC apology. I got you mixed up with aonther forum ‘mom’ and her previous posts (which I thought were yours.) Hence my accusation in post #301, I believe. If I could make one of these little faces, all red in shame, I would. So please accept my apology, I went back to the beginning of this link (insert amazed little face here) read your posts and take back my churlish comments. You expressed your opinion and experiences nicely and without the attitude I accused you of. I will now log off, and put myself in time out. I’ve been bad.</p>
<p>So between the two of you nobody values cars more?</p>
<p>It’s a question looking for a yes or no answer? :)</p>
<p>I don’t know about cars. But we do value piano-playing frats. 
Or… I THINK we do.</p>
<p>I don’t think so. We each gave the other these cars as wedding presents because we were both too conservative as spenders to treat ourselves to dream cars!</p>
<p>Forget the cars. I don’t need the cars.</p>
<p>“Who could value education more that a CCer, do you see the time some people have spent here over years! I’m sure it’s at or near the top of everyone here’s list, but what they value within the vast range of options is different.”</p>
<p>Let’s assume for the sake of argument that education is at the top of the value list.</p>
<p>“but what they value within the vast range of options is different.”</p>
<p>So everyone values education on CC at the top of the list.
So, on CC, we don’t have to talk about values when it comes to education. Everyone has the same values. </p>
<p>So in the vast range of options there are people that place different values on different things. But we all value education equally. So what we are doing is just finding the option that works best for our kid and family. There is no better or worse. What is best for you, may not be best for me. You might want to go to school on the east coast and I might want to go to school on the west coast. Neither is better than the other. Right?</p>
<p>The answer must be yes, because you said this…</p>
<p>“They believe their child could get a good education many places. Not good or bad, no judgement, but it is personal values. Values that are a result of background, eperience, exposure, etc.”</p>
<p>“Not good or bad, no judgement, but it is personal values”</p>
<p>So when people (education is at the top of the list) look at their options and decide to go for the scholarship, thinking that is the best thing for their kid and family, that decision is neither good or bad. It’s about personal values.</p>
<p>So when people say their decision is to go to Rhodes, you argue in favor of an Ivy. You said their decision is neither good or bad. They made it and you argue in favor of the Ivy. So you are arguing against another person’s “PERSONAL VALUES”. (I’m not yelling. I just wanted to emphasize this.)</p>
<p>Why are you arguing against another person’s personal values?</p>
<p>All any poster can do here is give an opinion, express their personal values in other words. So in my value system, I would scrimp and save to send my child to a top school because I believe there is a likely payoff. Many people disagree. I’ve enjoyed reading their rationale and hearing what they value. It makes me look hard at what I value.</p>
<p>But naturally I don’t agree with everyone’s personal values.</p>