I have a question for the people who don’t visualize – how do you find stuff?
For example, I’m always putting my phone down somewhere and then forgetting where I laid it. But I have the mental image of what my phone’s case looks like – so then I walk from room to room scanning surfaces such as countertops until there is a match. Or when I forgot where I parked my car in the lot – same thing – I picture my car and look for a match.
So I am puzzled as to how a person can recognize and distinguish familiar from unfamiliar objects without having a mental picture stored somewhere in the brain.
I’d never find anything without the visual memory – whenever I misplace stuff (phone, glasses, keys, purse, etc.) – I just try to pull up the picture of where I saw it last.
“I have a question for the people who don’t visualize – how do you find stuff?”
Funny thing is, I’ve always been the finder in my family. Even as a small child, even the adults would ask me to find anything missing for them. To me, it’s a process of logic and elimination, retracing steps, etc. I’m really good at finding stuff. I also, despite not being the most organized person, know exactly where something is. When working, I was the type that had a haphazard pile of paperwork on my desk rather than having everything stowed away in some organized filing cabinet but if someone needed some bit of info, I was also the first one to find it because I knew exactly where it was in that messy stack of papers. I also have a good memory in general. I rarely write down appointments and meetings. I just know when they are. Perhaps we learn to compensate in other ways.
I’m a fantastic visualizer, but not so good at coming up with the noun that matches the picture in my mind. For example, in answering a trivia question like “Who wrote the book “Educated”? I could visualize and describe in detail the dust cover of the book, where I bought it, where it was on the bookstore shelving, what the author’s jacket photo looks like… but her name on the book cover might be blurry, and it might not come to me right away. Minutes later her name will pop into my head.
The GPS in my head is great. I can visualize a route I have previously taken, and everything along the route just don’t ask me the names of the streets.
@doschicos – OK, I am also a person who works better with a haphazard pile of paperwork on my desk. I can’t count the number of times I’ve “lost” something because I made the mistake of putting it in a file and into the filing cabinet.
But I always thought that was associated with a visual memory. (That is, I have a picture of whatever document I am looking at sitting in the last spot where I saw it )
So how do you know exactly where something is in that messy stack of papers without a mental picture? Is there a tactile memory of some sort? (the feel of the papers). Or just some sort of invisible gut sense that you can’t really explain, but you just “know”?
I can only speak for myself, but I can recognize objects that I own. I do this without visualizing them at all consciously. I just know “yep, that’s it”.
As I posted earlier, this may be somewhat similar to blindsight. A part of my brain may be doing image matching, but I can’t bring the image to my awareness. Similarly people who are cortically blind from a lesion may be able to walk down a hall and avoid objects.
Not sure. I mean, I know what the item looks like because I saw it before but I can’t create an image in my mind, I’m not conjuring up a fresh image that appears in my mind like a photo. I could describe it to you though from memory. I just know it when I see it. And I also have a sense of when it was placed in the pile so will know how far deep it might be. I don’t really think about the “how” much, it just happens.
I can tell you exactly where my “Educated” book is (since I have one too). I can’t tell you a thing about what’s on the cover, but if I had to go get it (and I were home to do so), I could. I’d recognize it when I saw it. In that way it’s different than face blindness where I don’t recognize anyone’s face at all - even if I saw them a few minutes ago. I recognize people using other aspects of who they are, so I can still bring home the correct human from the airport if I know who I’m picking up (I don’t need a sign with a name on it). In that aspect, I’d know the book because I’d see the title. Take the dust cover off, but don’t move the book and I can still get it. I know where I put it.
I noticed a bunch of years ago that there is always a series of layers of thought in my head at any given time. There’s thoughts in words; it’s usually a conversation in my head–either something I’m trying to work out in a way that I could convey to others in conversation, or something I want to write. There’s a layer of thinking in ideas that bypasses words, sort of thinking through concept, or shapes. Hard to describe. I think most of the original thinking starts there. There is usually a visual strain underlying those. Sometimes it’s like my brain provides a visual “setting” where the thoughts are happening, like a yard or a room. Sometimes it’s shape and colors. Sometimes it’s a more overt “looking at” something I want to see or think about. And there is always a song playing, unless I’m listening to music. It’s a busy place in here, I’ll tell ya!
I can definitely “see” images of people/places/things in my mind when I think about them. Before today, I never realized that others didn’t. I think this is a loss on some levels for those that can’t. But we all have deficits of some kind, so what you don’t know may not hurt you.
Very interesting thread. Thanks for showing us a dimension we may not ever have known existed.
" I can recognize objects that I own. I do this without visualizing them at all consciously. I just know “yep, that’s it”." So you don’t visualize where you’ve been, what rooms? Some of this is confusing to me. So you’d just walk through the whole house?
“So how do you know exactly where something is in that messy stack of papers without a mental picture?” Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but when it’s in a stack or a pile, you have to go through that pile. Knowing what it looks like (green header across the top or some logo) only helps when you do see it, helps you recognize it.
I have a mental picture of the whole pile – so, I know which pile (because there is more than one messy pile of papers on my desk) - and my mental picture tells me where in the pile it will be (top, middle, bottom – maybe underneath the post card from the dentist. Having a mental picture also helps me recognize the item when I see it --but I’ve already got the picture before I go looking.
I think that’s why I lose things when I file them – because the files in the file cabinet all look the same, and once the papers are neatly organized inside, its just a stack of paper. And probably why I work better with messy stacks of paper than neat stacks.
I can work with files if the files are out in the open (desktop file organizer) and different colored folders.
How interesting. I’m not sure I do see pictures in my mind like that. I didn’t really realize people did.
I wonder if that’s why I have so much difficulty choosing things like paint for the house. I always comment “I just can’t picture what it will look like”. I didn’t realize I was being literal!
I do dream though. Just last night I dreamt we were under attack. Not sure if it was aliens, Russia or Iran but it was very vivid and quite disturbing.
I recognize things when I see it, but I can’t tell you ahead of time that it has a green header. I know where things are in my stack because I put them there and recall that part (X is on or near the bottom, Y is in the middle somewhere, Z is on top). I often know quite specifically which order things are in, but sometimes I don’t care.
I suspect this is similar to when one is blind - other senses become more aware. As a pp mentioned, I’m the “finder” in our family. I will know where things are when others don’t - even when I didn’t put it somewhere. I suspect my brain remembers where people usually put things. If it’s something new or someone new moving something, then I have no idea.
I dream, but my dreams are nowhere near as vivid as H’s are. He describes his in minute detail with colors, depth, and more. I dream in big picture - not much in details. I also forget mine easily. He can tell me one of his (in detail) at supper. If I’m going to be able to relate most dreams, it has to be right after I wake up and you won’t get details. You’ll get Cliff Notes.
Pondering this, it really makes sense that IRL I don’t see or give a hoot about fashion of any sort (clothes, houses, hair styles), etc. I go with functional - things I like/need/prefer - and assume others do the same so all is well. After teaching a class I’d be hard pressed to tell you what any student was wearing unless I were using that to identify who they were (Jack is in the red t-shirt, Joe is in the green one). I only do that for “quick” memorization though. Otherwise I use hair styles, gait, and voice recognition - plus where they sit in the class or who they hang around with.