artskids1526 replies22 postsRegistered UserSenior Member
My perspective on coaching is somewhat simpler. My kids - 2 in BFA programs, one finishing her Jr her in HS and starting the process (we tell our middle schooler she needs to be an accountant or engineer :-)) - all attend or attended a PA HS 1/2 days. I feel we had good advice on monologue material and a heads up on timing. Our experience with the PA HS is different from @EmsDad. Although the kids are learning from highly-skilled actors and teachers, they are not dialed in to the competitiveness or intensity of the MT audition. The logistics of planning the year are on the students and the parents. I didn't raise unicorns. The last person they want to take advice and guidance from, in our case, are their MBA/JD-type parents. However, they will heed the EXACT SAME ADVICE when it comes from someone they view as an expert. Hence my decision this year to bolt on some ala carte coaching.
If I have one regret from my S's year (now rising college senior), it is that we did not reach out for additional guidance and some coaching. We didn't know what we didn't know and was unaware of CC until after audition season. I am not sure results would have been any different. However, the benefit of having his materials and list reviewed by a neutral third party would have been quite valuable.
collegemom2000286 replies13 postsRegistered UserJunior Member
@Onourown your daughter's story is inspiring and gives me hope we can tackle this process on our own if necessary. We do not have the financial resources to do all of the travel and coaching that others can afford, and having a sick child only adds another monkey wrench to the situation. However, I am leaning toward hiring someone just to speak to us (via Skype I'm sure) and help my daughter sort through the process and which schools fit her needs. I don't want her coached at all...just advice. There must be a way to reach a happy medium.
Onourown141 replies1 postsRegistered UserJunior Member
@collegemom2000 that is why I shared it. Just to give another perspective. From what I have read on here and from friends who have used the coaches, I don't think there is anything wrong with it. It seems like most of them have a pick and choose type of service so you can pay for what you need. I feel that they are very in touch with the college audition process and are extremely supportive.
My daughter who just finished the process is my youngest and only one at home. I was able to focus my own time and energy outside of work on this process as well. I feel I may have considered the audition coaching as a resource if that was not the case, if nothing else, to help me wrap my head around it all. It's alot.
Onourown141 replies1 postsRegistered UserJunior Member
@artskids LOL about your middle schooler! My oldest is a successful and thriving musician who left HS and got his GED. I always told my youngest she HAD to go to college. The joke was on me.....I forgot to tell her WHAT to go for!
vvnstar1711 replies22 postsRegistered UserSenior Member
I think what some are having issue with is the word "coached". For some reason for many it has a negative connotation. But even in college and beyond, students often are "coached". In her college program, our D has a vocal technique teacher, but she also has a coach. She works with them both weekly. The coach helps select repertoire and works on presentation of the material. The voice teacher works on vocal technique. Many MT programs have a similar set up. This is somewhat similar to audition coaching. Audition coaches are not there to work on technique. As far as your audition material goes, they are there to help you select rep and cuts and help you present it in a way that makes the most out of your particular skills so that YOU really shine in the audition. To be coached is not to present it in one certain style - but to present it in a way that makes the most out of what you have to bring to the table. A good coach can coach 2 students on the same song and have it done completely differently depending on the different strengths of the 2 students.
Re: cost - if coaching is something of interest to you, I would check with some of the coaches and services and see if there is any way to reduce cost. Some of them offer scholarships to students who need them.
Also, just to clear up something else mentioned earlier: for those contemplating coaching, be aware that having a coach does not mean you are not doing research or other work. You will do as much or possibly more research and work than you would without a coach. In our case, the coach brought to our attention many schools we were unaware of. D still had to do her due diligence to determine whether those schools were of interest to her, meaning lots of research on her own. And although it was nice that our coach reminded us of deadlines, it was still incumbent on the applicant to make sure everything was completed and turned in according to that school's instructions. The coach does not do any of that for you.
I understand coaching is not needed by everyone. And certainly don't criticize anyone who does not have a need for a coach. I think that's wonderful if you are able to navigate this process successfully on your own. But coaches can be very valuable resources for those of us who don't have any knowledge of the college audition process. And that choice should be respected as well.
This sure has got off the topic of the OP! LOL, that happens.... but Hello @toowonderful I think I may know part of the answer to your #48 post. I have a friend who worked with them when they were all together (before MTCA was formed) and that was about 2005. Mary Anna Dennard already had college audition coach her sight says since 2000 and Ellen Lettrich and Mark Christine were her song coaches at the time and my friends kids worked with them in the beginning before they started MTCA. Mary Anna did the monologues and ran the college audition coach business. Then they branched off some time after 2005. Ellen's MTCA business has really grown and she coaches the most amount of students. Maybe that means she has made the biggest impact on the scene and cottage industry. But Mark Christine now is a coaching associate for Dennard. I am almost positive those 3 were the very first college audition coaches. There seem to be so many now all over the country. And they use Skype regularly. I reached out a while back about scholarships and some do offer help for those in need. But it seems like the need for help with the complicated process has grown, a result of the colleges requirements, thus more perceived need for coaches. I do think he whole thing has fed the competitiveness. SO many more applicants!
EmsDad1498 replies14 postsRegistered UserSenior Member
FYI - Mary Anna Dennard used to post here on CC, you can find her posts by searching for "Mary Anna" as the author (you have to put in the space to find the right "Mary Anna"). They date back to 2005.
toowonderful4077 replies68 postsRegistered UserSenior Member
@Notmath1 - thanks for the info! The dates do kind of support my musing about whether coaching upped the game. Of course, there will never be a concrete answer.
EmsDad1498 replies14 postsRegistered UserSenior Member
edited April 2017
@collegemom2000: regarding stats on academic vs. artistic denials - no one that I know if has tabulated this info. You could develop a rough idea by going back through the "Final Decisions Background" threads for several years and see who noted academic rejections, but I would say that something on the order of 90 percent of rejections are artistic. Some schools that are "most selective" academically, such as CMU, UCLA, and Michigan, apparently apply at least somewhat less selectivity (and in the case of CMU, apparently much less selectivity) to artistically-qualified MT applicants.
The following schools come to mind as listed as "academically rejected" in the Final Decisions threads (or elsewhere):
Northwestern University
UCLA
University of Miami - Florida
University of Michigan (you won't get through the prescreen without meeting their minimum academic standards)
University of Southern California
American University
Emerson College
Florida State University
Illinois Wesleyan
Muhlenberg College
NYU/Steinhardt
NYU/Tisch
Texas Christian University
University of California - Irvine
James Madison University
Pennsylvania State University
Elon
@collegemom2000, at the time my D was auditioning a few years ago, I didn't think we wanted to pay for a college coach, and I wasn't sure it was necessary or desirable, either. Neither of D's voice teachers (both attached to quality programs) recommended it; in fact, one was scornful of it (honestly, one place in particular--but the whole industry overall). Things seemed to be going smoothly until late August of D's senior year, when both D and I panicked because neither of us were satisfied with her monologue choices. I reached out to Chelsea Diehl; she seemed down-to-earth and personable in her blog, and she is.
I like to say that we used her "lightly." She helped D find better monologues, just heard D's songs once, and gave inside views on D's potential school list, considering my D's personality and desires above all, and helped us to hone down the list. D Skyped the sessions, which worked fine.
Chelsea was also always available, responsive, and so helpful throughout the whole process via email, including offering support, opinions, insights, and assurances. She was a great sounding board at every step of the process, and we were relieved and grateful to have her!
So, collegemom2000, my experience is that you can have some coaches (at least Chelsea; idk about the others) for whichever step you'd like help. Chelsea knew that we only wanted to have a very small number of sessions, and that we only wanted consultations for monologues and finalizing the college list, and she was completely fine with that. I ended up wishing we had gone to Chelsea sooner or had been able to go to a master class or two just because she was great and it was nice to have her support/insights, but it turned out fine the way it was.
We are using a coach for Gap Year/Year 2 of auditioning. It may be somewhat difficult to differentiate how much of that MAY contribute to D's second year yield vs.first year yield-after all, she will be a year wiser/more experienced. For us, it is money well spent, because SHE WON'T LISTEN TO ME!!! If a coach directs her towards a different monologue, song, wardrobe choice; to re-do headshots....D will comply. If I do the same, I get an eye roll and the silent treatment. Bottom line-kids without coaches get into top programs, and kids with coaches get into top programs. All one can do is apply a cost/benefit anallysis, and decide what's best for their situation.
Not hiring a coach is my biggest regret of my D's audition season two years ago.
I was of the opinion, "oh, I got this ... I can figure all this stuff out - the internet is free!"
Um ... no.
I think what played into my stupidity was my oldest daughter's acceptance to Vanderbilt the year before. Her application was masterfully crafted to hit on all the hot buttons a college at that level would want. And it worked.
So acceptance to a Musical Theatre BFA program should be a piece of cake right?
)
Most of the late 20-30 somethings who do community theatre were products of either Ball State's BFA program, Indiana University's or Millikin's They would tell my daughter why she should chose their alma mater. That's how much the audition process has changed since they graduated a short 10-15 years ago - they thought my kiddo would have her pick!
Again .... )
I was knowledgeable to know it was going to be tough - but didn't realize how tough. I mean, who really has ever heard of Rider? Did I know anyone who actually even knew where Texas State was? And Oklahoma? Why the heck would anyone go there? Musical Theatre admissions are a completely different animal.
So while I was able to readjust in the middle of audition season and get new auditions on the calendar lickety split (again, THANK YOU TO ALL THOSE CC PARENTS - YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE! :x ) it would've been a much saner process if we would've had someone who was familiar w/ how auditions are done on a national level. I mean, I adore all of my D's theatre grads and her local vocal coach, but they didn't really have a clue on how crazily competitive this was and is.
I don't begrudge anyone for not having a coach - lots of kids do very well without them. But if the people who are helping you locally say anything like, "oh my gosh, you D/S is so talented they'll get in wherever they choose!" and you tend to believe them ... then maybe they don't have the finger on the pulse of auditioning for BFA programs and you might need some outside guidance. (Not to say your kid isn't uber talented ... I'm sure they are because mine sure is! Haha! But there are also 43,482 other uber talented kiddos auditioning for about 3 spots.)
collegemom2000286 replies13 postsRegistered UserJunior Member
@myloves thank you! I will contact Chelsea. So far the coaches I have seen want large sums of money and long term, weekly commitments (except I guess for the online ones.) We could use some help here and there, but definitely do not want anyone on a weekly basis nor do we want to go broke with this. And her vocal coach is the same..insisting we do not get a coach, that they are all just a way to scam people out of their money. I'm sure there is truth on both sides of the argument, its just finding the balance of what is needed and what is for profit I suppose.
Correction to post #67. I'm Ellen, the founder and Director of MTCA, and I started doing song coaching for college auditionees in 1993, two years after my graduation from undergrad. In 1999, I began connecting my students with Carnegie Mellon's senior MTs for workshops and some coaching. This partnership was the seed of MTCA. (I was a full-time public high school teacher from 1995-2002, when I left to enter grad school.) I did college audition prep and other teaching through some wonderful educational theatre groups in Pittsburgh, where I'm from, from 1993-2004. In 2004 I added one monologue coach who worked with my students. I added several more in 2006-2007 and MTCA was formed in 2007. We added dance coaches in 2008 and vocal technique coaches in 2009.
I enjoyed my time working alongside Mary Anna, which I did while MTCA was simultaneously growing: I worked with my own students and hers also. We worked together from 2005-2010 and maintain a collegial relationship.
NewJeffCT174 replies5 postsRegistered UserJunior Member
@sopranomtmom Congrats on her getting into the Hartt School. I live about 10-12 minutes from there, depending on traffic. The faculty I've met there have been very caring and passionate about their students. Best of luck to her. If MT means Montana, she will at least be able to handle the New England winters without a problem.
My daughter takes vocal lessons through the Hartt Community Division, but is determined to not be close to home when she goes off to college.
theatremom10181 replies3 postsRegistered UserJunior Member
@NewJeffCT Hi! I'll send you a message with some information about coaches. We used MTCA for my son this year. Very pleased with them as they were extremely helpful in the audition process
Replies to: Standardizing college theatre / musical theatre auditions
If I have one regret from my S's year (now rising college senior), it is that we did not reach out for additional guidance and some coaching. We didn't know what we didn't know and was unaware of CC until after audition season. I am not sure results would have been any different. However, the benefit of having his materials and list reviewed by a neutral third party would have been quite valuable.
My daughter who just finished the process is my youngest and only one at home. I was able to focus my own time and energy outside of work on this process as well. I feel I may have considered the audition coaching as a resource if that was not the case, if nothing else, to help me wrap my head around it all. It's alot.
Re: cost - if coaching is something of interest to you, I would check with some of the coaches and services and see if there is any way to reduce cost. Some of them offer scholarships to students who need them.
Also, just to clear up something else mentioned earlier: for those contemplating coaching, be aware that having a coach does not mean you are not doing research or other work. You will do as much or possibly more research and work than you would without a coach. In our case, the coach brought to our attention many schools we were unaware of. D still had to do her due diligence to determine whether those schools were of interest to her, meaning lots of research on her own. And although it was nice that our coach reminded us of deadlines, it was still incumbent on the applicant to make sure everything was completed and turned in according to that school's instructions. The coach does not do any of that for you.
I understand coaching is not needed by everyone. And certainly don't criticize anyone who does not have a need for a coach. I think that's wonderful if you are able to navigate this process successfully on your own. But coaches can be very valuable resources for those of us who don't have any knowledge of the college audition process. And that choice should be respected as well.
The following schools come to mind as listed as "academically rejected" in the Final Decisions threads (or elsewhere):
Northwestern University
UCLA
University of Miami - Florida
University of Michigan (you won't get through the prescreen without meeting their minimum academic standards)
University of Southern California
American University
Emerson College
Florida State University
Illinois Wesleyan
Muhlenberg College
NYU/Steinhardt
NYU/Tisch
Texas Christian University
University of California - Irvine
James Madison University
Pennsylvania State University
Elon
I like to say that we used her "lightly." She helped D find better monologues, just heard D's songs once, and gave inside views on D's potential school list, considering my D's personality and desires above all, and helped us to hone down the list. D Skyped the sessions, which worked fine.
Chelsea was also always available, responsive, and so helpful throughout the whole process via email, including offering support, opinions, insights, and assurances. She was a great sounding board at every step of the process, and we were relieved and grateful to have her!
So, collegemom2000, my experience is that you can have some coaches (at least Chelsea; idk about the others) for whichever step you'd like help. Chelsea knew that we only wanted to have a very small number of sessions, and that we only wanted consultations for monologues and finalizing the college list, and she was completely fine with that. I ended up wishing we had gone to Chelsea sooner or had been able to go to a master class or two just because she was great and it was nice to have her support/insights, but it turned out fine the way it was.
I was of the opinion, "oh, I got this ... I can figure all this stuff out - the internet is free!"
Um ... no.
I think what played into my stupidity was my oldest daughter's acceptance to Vanderbilt the year before. Her application was masterfully crafted to hit on all the hot buttons a college at that level would want. And it worked.
So acceptance to a Musical Theatre BFA program should be a piece of cake right?
Most of the late 20-30 somethings who do community theatre were products of either Ball State's BFA program, Indiana University's or Millikin's They would tell my daughter why she should chose their alma mater. That's how much the audition process has changed since they graduated a short 10-15 years ago - they thought my kiddo would have her pick!
Again ....
I was knowledgeable to know it was going to be tough - but didn't realize how tough. I mean, who really has ever heard of Rider? Did I know anyone who actually even knew where Texas State was? And Oklahoma? Why the heck would anyone go there? Musical Theatre admissions are a completely different animal.
So while I was able to readjust in the middle of audition season and get new auditions on the calendar lickety split (again, THANK YOU TO ALL THOSE CC PARENTS - YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE! :x ) it would've been a much saner process if we would've had someone who was familiar w/ how auditions are done on a national level. I mean, I adore all of my D's theatre grads and her local vocal coach, but they didn't really have a clue on how crazily competitive this was and is.
I don't begrudge anyone for not having a coach - lots of kids do very well without them. But if the people who are helping you locally say anything like, "oh my gosh, you D/S is so talented they'll get in wherever they choose!" and you tend to believe them ... then maybe they don't have the finger on the pulse of auditioning for BFA programs and you might need some outside guidance. (Not to say your kid isn't uber talented ... I'm sure they are because mine sure is! Haha! But there are also 43,482 other uber talented kiddos auditioning for about 3 spots.)
I enjoyed my time working alongside Mary Anna, which I did while MTCA was simultaneously growing: I worked with my own students and hers also. We worked together from 2005-2010 and maintain a collegial relationship.
My daughter takes vocal lessons through the Hartt Community Division, but is determined to not be close to home when she goes off to college.