10 years on, high-school social skills predict better earnings than test scores

[jym626]

<p>

Ten years after graduation, high-school students who had been rated as conscientious and cooperative by their teachers were earning more than classmates who had similar test scores but fewer social skills, said a new University of Illinois study.
The study’s findings challenge the idea that racial, ethnic, and socioeconomic gaps in educational attainment and earnings can be narrowed solely by emphasizing cognitive skills, said Christy Lleras, a University of Illinois assistant professor of human and community development.</p>

<p>“It’s important to note that good schools do more than teach reading, writing, and math. They socialize students and provide the kinds of learning opportunities that help them to become good citizens and to be successful in the labor market,” she said.</p>

<p>“Unless we address the differences in school climates and curriculum that foster good work habits and other social skills, we’re doing a huge disservice to low-income kids who may be entering the labor market right after high school, especially in our increasingly service-oriented economy,” Lleras added.</p>

<p>“My findings show that the most successful students are those who have not only high achievement test scores but also the kinds of social skills and behaviors that are highly rewarded by employers in the workplace,” she said.

</p>

<p>Time to focus on those social/interpersonal skills and emotional intelligence rather than on test scores.

Participation in sports and school organizations also had strong effects on a student’s future educational and occupational success.</p>

<p>“For African American and Hispanic students only, participation in fine arts led to significantly better earnings compared to whites. This suggests that different activities teach kids different kinds of skills and learned behaviors,” she said.</p>

<p>Lleras also emphasized the importance of improving school quality.</p>

<p>“Low-income and racial minority students continue to be concentrated in lower-quality schools with fewer opportunities for extracurricular participation, larger class sizes, and lower teacher quality, all factors that are correlated with poorer school-related attitudes and behavior,” she said.

Here’s the link to the full article:
[10</a> years on, high-school social skills predict better earnings than test scores](<a href=“http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-10/uoia-tyo101508.php#]10”>http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-10/uoia-tyo101508.php#)</p>

[BCEagle91]

<p>It seems to me that many of the qualities desired are taught to students by their parents - or not. Sports provides an additional “parent” for the student and additional supervised time.</p>

<p>Fine arts require a lot of time, dedication and effort to be successful at. If you learn to be successful at one thing, you learn some of the metaskills to be successful at other things.</p>

<p>I think that it’s the responsibility of parents to set the example in the house for good work and social skills to teach implicitly and to also teach the other skills explicitly with reminders where necessary. The parents that I work with do this. If they see a problem with grades or attitude, they talk to their kids and come up with a plan to resolve the problem.</p>

[happymomof1]

<p>Thank you, thank you, thank you!</p>

<p>I’m printing this one out to stick in my permanent files.</p>

[momofthreeboys]

<p>This only affirms what I have always believed and have observed in the workplace environment.</p>

[jym626]

<p>happymom-
What do you think about the article? Do you agree that the school should work more on social skill development, or do you feel, as BCEagle suggests, taht the parents should take ownership of this? IMO, it would be great if the parents taught /modelled social skills, but sadly, as we know from the literature on abuse, kids often model the behavior of the parent(s), which may not be good behavior.</p>

[Zenbadabing]

<p>They needed to do a study for this? Honestly, do people really think that they will be promoted to executive positions simply by flashing their uber test scores?</p>

[northeastmom]

<p>jym, from my own life experience, I disagree somewhat with this study. I guess we would need to define what a desirable social skill might be. My own observations show me that the person who thinks about himself and puts his asprirations above all else will advance. I have found a lot of people who are self promoting, are not generally kind and helpful to others advancing. Those are also social skills, but necessarily the type that I would value, yet they could be learned in high school.</p>

[jym626]

<p>Northeastmom-
I believe the study described “social skills as conscientiousness, cooperativeness, and motivation were as important as test scores for success in the workplace.”. I think they would consider self-focused, narcissistic or insensitive self-promotong behavior as antisocial, not social behaviors.</p>

[barrons]

<p>Maybe those skills work better in the Northeast. ;-)</p>

[northeastmom]

<p>

I think they would consider self-focused, narcissistic or insensitive self-promotong behavior as antisocial, not social behaviors.

</p>

<p>I have found that they do work well (that is, “anti-social behavior”), and I live in the northeast. Oh, and I spent 3 years in the midwest. I found these anti-social behaviors can work well there too. Just do the same self promoting things at a slower pace ;)</p>

[jym626]

<p>Maybe those folks have more money in their pocket and/or to spend on themselves because they have no friends??</p>

[northeastmom]

<p>They seem to have friends, but maybe these are superficial relationships. I have noted that a good deal of them are divorced and some have been divorced more than one time. Then again, I hear that there is a 50% divorce rate anyway (jym, correct me if I am wrong about %, I did not look up the statistics. Just repeating what I have read and heard).</p>

[jym626]

<p>I dont recall the divorce stats either, NEM, but they are probably close to what you estimated. The succssful folks with antisocial behaviors are usually charming, if not ingratiating, but they rarely care much about the feelings of others. They use them for their own personal gain and may then move on when they are no longer useful (I am speaking in generalities here). Think politician.</p>

[northeastmom]

<p>Are you describing the pathology, antisocial personality disorder? LOL, does that diagnosis fit some politicians? I hope that diagnosis does not fit too many of them!</p>

[mommusic]

<p>There are social skills and there are social skills.</p>

<p>When I saw the headline I thought of many people I know (who shall remain nameless) who were shy, insecure nerds in HS while the “social butterflies” ruled. Now the nerds (who were actually very smart but late bloomers) are making more money than many of the social networkers.</p>

<p>I do agree that many kids who seem very social and have many friends are not ready for the adult world with regard to showing up on time, doing the work that has to be done, and having respect for their teacher or boss. They are too busy worrying about their “image” or if they are being “dissed” to learn how to be good citizens & workers.</p>

[starbright]

<p>^ My gosh, I was going to write this exact same thing.</p>

[jym626]

<p>NEM-
Without getting too off topic, my decription was more of narcissistic/antisocial personality traits. The Antisocial personality disorder can have the potential for more criminal behavior (though some symptoms certainly overlap) (definition of Antisocial personality Disorder from Wiki: )

Persistent lying or stealing
Recurring difficulties with the law
Tendency to violate the rights and boundaries of others
Substance abuse
Aggressive, often violent behavior; prone to getting involved in fights
A persistent agitated or depressed feeling (dysphoria)
Inability to tolerate boredom
Disregard for the safety of self or others
A childhood diagnosis of conduct disorders - this is not a symptom but “a history of”
Lack of remorse, related to hurting others
Superficial charm
Impulsiveness
A sense of extreme entitlement
Inability to make or keep friends
Recklessness, impulsivity[4][5]
People with a diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder often experience difficulties with authority figures

</p>

<p>And mommusic – I thought of “Back to the Future” when I read your post! LOL</p>

[Lafalum84]

<p>In some ways, this article is a no-brainer. The way I read it, if you take kids with similar test scores, the ones who also had good social skills (cooperative, hard-working, etc) advanced further than those who merely did well on tests. Well, duh.</p>

<p>But further down, I found the statement that kids who participated in sports and activities did better than those who didn’t. That statement lead me to email this article to our hs principal and school board chairman. Both of them very much value “extra” curriculars, but if this type of information could be disseminated to parents and the public at large it would help. Parents need to encourage their kids to join clubs, teams, etc - we’ve known for years that kids who don’t leave the building every day when the bell rings do better in school. But now we can show that they do better in college and the working world as well. When push comes to shove, the budget axe always falls on the "extra"curriculars. Taxpayers need to understand that kids are getting concrete, real value from sports and clubs, not just a fun way to fill their time and stay off the streets. Colleges clearly already understand this, as they ask about and value EC’s when evaluating their applicants.</p>

[starbright]

<p>^I agree with you in general but a good counter argument is simply that a correlation between ECs and success doesn’t mean ECs cause success. </p>

<p>No way of knowing if doing those things that makes a difference later OR if the kinds of kids who do those things in school are also just the kind who will be successful later on. </p>

<p>For example, kids who can juggle ECs with school, or kids who have the type of personality and outside interests that lead them into ECs, or kids from families that encourage ECs, might just be the kids who also will be successful (so ECs are correlated with future success but not causing it).</p>

[jym626]

<p>This is an interesting comment

Participation in sports and school organizations also had strong effects on a student’s future educational and occupational success.</p>

<p>“For African American and Hispanic students only, participation in fine arts led to significantly better earnings compared to whites. This suggests that different activities teach kids different kinds of skills and learned behaviors,” she said

Suggesting that when controlling statistically for other variables, there was a causal or correlational relationship. I am rusty on may statistics-- perhaps someone would like to email the person listed as the contact at UIUC-- Phyllis Picklesimer?

Contact: Phyllis Picklesimer
<a href=“mailto:p-pickle@uiuc.edu”>p-pickle@uiuc.edu</a>
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

Wow-- thats a tough name to live with!</p>