<p>I agree with Pizzagirl that we do not need the extra expense.</p>
<p>I went back and looked at the reports on the vouchers. I could only find a report of a written statement by Rabbi Lindfield of the Yeshiva that vouchers were offered. In the Time report they stated that they had attempted to contact him to follow up on this but he had not responded. Has anyone seen a confirmation from Air Trans or Southwest that vouchers were provided?</p>
<p>Ahem…the flight attendants DO give a warning. They clearly state “all electronic devices need to be turned off now…anything with an on/off switch”. And its written in every piece of airline literature. </p>
<p>The chaperones should have taken the phones away. Or we’re the on their phones too?</p>
<p>I don’t really care if vouchers were provided, frankly. These kids were uncivilized jerks and they had no excuse for their behavior.</p>
<p>As a frequent flyer, I have no tolerance for people of any age who delay takeoff by not being in place, belted, and with electronics off. It’s not rocket science. You sit down, fasten your belt, and use your phone until the crew announces the plane doors are closing. Even short delays by non-compliant passengers can morph into longer delays, missed takeoff and landing slots, missed connections, etc. </p>
<p>(In my experience, kids aren’t the problem - it’s almost always adults who feel they are entitled to ignore the crew’s instructions so they can send a few more texts or get something out of the overhead bin. I saw a news story recently about a fight on a plane when one passenger tried to stop another from using his cell phone after the cabin doors had closed. I can sympathize with the would-be vigilante, though I probably wouldn’t assault another passenger - it’s frustrating to see minutes slipping away when you know your connection time is already tight and some moron is ignoring the third request to turn off electronics.)</p>
<p>While we don’t know all the facts, it seems clear that there was fairly widespread ignoring of repeated requests to be seated with electronics off. I have no problem with booting the whole group, though I think the departure delay would have been shorter if they had removed one or two offenders as examples. I’m guessing if a couple of students had been escorted off by security officers, the rest of the group would have settled down immediately. As it was, the lengthy time required to remove the group likely caused problems for many of the other passengers. Lose-lose.</p>
<p>It will be interesting to see if there are disciplinary consequences for any of the students. Some schools guard their reputations with great zeal and would not take a publicized incident of this type lightly.</p>
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IMO, it would have been worse if they had tried to separate the group. There was no way that AirTran could have removed some students, without removing an adult as well, and then reducing the number of chaperones for the remaining students. Can you imagine the headlines: “AirTran strands teenagers alone at airport.” Bigger lose. (And as I read the articles, I thought that the group refused to be separated - I believe they decided that they would all get off.)</p>
<p>The bigger problem as I see it is neither chaprones or the school seem to find any fault with kids. Charprones feel their behavior wasn’t too bad and the school send the problem kids to continue on thier trip. I don’t know if any disciplne is planned.</p>
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<p>WHAT!?</p>
<p>:eek:</p>
<p>I can’t believe someone actually typed that.</p>
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<p>The Jewish population of Brooklyn residents is about 15 percent (and 13% for all of NYC).</p>
<p>:rolleyes:</p>
<p>I am certain that every one of those students are very much aware of how it feels to be in the minority.</p>
<p>What does religion have to do with their behavior?</p>
<p>A quote from the New York Observer:</p>
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<p>It’s interesting that the teachers, chaperones and the school director do not seem to feel the students were at fault.</p>
<p>And some more teacher quotes from IBT:</p>
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<p>I’m disappointed in the teacher/chaperone comments. Saying that they “all complied eventually” is not acceptable behavior.</p>
<p>^ amazing…entitled is what I get from this story</p>
<p>FWIW, Golffather, I’m the one who wrote that and I’m Jewish. I’m supposed to pretend there isn’t a pushy-Jew stereotype out there? And the “and they complied eventually” just reinforces it. No, the time to comply isn’t “eventually.” It is when they tell you it’s time to turn off your electronics and settle down.</p>
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<p>Agreed. More shocking it came from a religiously affiliated school as 10-20 years ago…students from such schools would have been expelled for far less atrocious behavior than that. </p>
<p>Knew of some old neighborhood kids who ended up having to repeat their HS senior year because they were expelled in such fashion a few weeks before graduation for violating school regulations governing behavior off school grounds…and it was nowhere near as bad as this story.</p>
<p>I’m Jewish and I’ve lived in areas where I’m the only one. No temples, no day schools and people who have never met a Jew before. It feels a lot different than Brooklyn. I don’t condone the students’ behavior for many reasons, and also because I’m concerned that some people would think that’s how all Jews act. I’ve experienced hearing “those Jews …” instead of “some people …”
I wouldn’t want to see any ethnic/religious group judged as a whole on the behavior of just a few. Hundreds of groups of Jewish youth travel all the time without incident, as do many other groups of people.
I appreciate the focus on behavior, not religion. It’s not restricted to one group, or to kids. Gerard Depardieu urinated on a plane, and Alec Baldwin was asked to leave for refusing to stop playing an electronic game. They got the same consequences as anyone who misbehaves on a plane.</p>
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<p>I’d be interested in knowing when the Rabbi offered to help control the kids. I am guessing it had been going for sometime since the captain had to be called in. Why didn’t he offer to help early on? What was he waiting for?</p>
<p>“Eventually” doesn’t cut it when dealing with flight security and departure times. You simply don’t ignore the instructions of the flight crew. They may repeat an instruction once if they don’t think everyone got the message, but if the pilot had to be called in the instructions were clearly being ignored. As Pennylane2011 notes, even celebrities like Alec Baldwin can get tossed if they don’t turn off their phones when told to.</p>
<p>Perhaps the chaperones were inexperienced travelers themselves and didn’t foresee the consequences of what they saw as merely rambunctious teen behavior. Still, I’m surprised the school is apparently defending the students. My HS (also private and religious-affiliated) would likely issue suspensions and expulsions for an embarrassing episode like this. In fact, when I was a student, a off-campus trip incident much less serious than this did resulted in multiple expulsions.</p>
<p>Hindsight is 20-20. In analyzing the situation there are plenty of would have should have could have. None of us were there though and there could have been many reasons for any of it. The Rabbi was familiar with the kids and perhaps he’s seen them settle down after being excited and expected them to. Perhaps he realized that this was these kids at their worst and they were basically good kids. The airline crew on the other hand had no idea what these kids would do- if they would ever settle or if they would act up the whole time when the plane was in the air. They were doing what they were trained to do with any non compliant passenger.
Perhaps the accusation of discrimination was a comment made in the heat of the moment. We’ve all said things we should not have said at times of distress.Everyone could have been tired and the thought of getting that group off the plane and waiting for another plan would be exasperating.
Or maybe it was just a group of unruly entitled kids with inattentive chaperones… or not. I’m not making any excuses for what happened, but I surely can’t come up with any reasons that aren’t speculation.
What’s done is done and hopefully the school and the students will process this and learn from it and be better prepared for the next year’s trip. Perhaps there will be consequences that the school prefers to keep private to the students and families. Every person is capable of learning from mistakes and doing better the next time.</p>
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<p>Which makes it even more unusual that both the teens and the adults seem to feel that following FAA regulation did not apply to them.
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<p>I did find photos- apparently posted on twitter,BTW, but it could have just been of some misc. excitable teens trapped in a hallway. The blog also brought up the question of why they didnt go to NJ to hit Six Flags instead of Atlanta. </p>
<p>As a long time chaperone of high school students, I question why the adult chaperones did not get involved until after the air personnel attempted to get the teens to comply.
Shouldn’t the chaperones have been aware of their behavior and what was necessary to take off safely? Had the chaperones perhaps not flown before?</p>
<p>sounds like the chaperones had an elitist entitled attitude along with the kids</p>
<p>their religion had nothing to do with their behavior and whether you are Jewish or not, it is not acceptable to imply they were pushy Jews</p>