<p>^^ the only reference I made to the religious background of the students was when I disagreed with ones assertion that they were removed from the plane because of their religion and not because of their behavior.</p>
<p>I dont think the religion is material- however, my experience has been that religious schools are fairly structured and at least while supervising adults are present, students are expected to toe the mark.
Or perhaps that is just a west coast thing?</p>
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<p>Definitely NOT a west coast thing. I was thrown out of one Catholic school as a 5 year old first grader for being “too rambunctious”* and the second Catholic school was only slightly less no-nonsense. </p>
<p>Then again, several older adults who attended such schools in the '50s/'60s mentioned how the discipline had slackened as we weren’t subjected to corporal punishment like being rapped hard on the knuckles like they were as Catholic elementary school kids. </p>
<p>Maybe this slackening of disciplinary standards also affected this Yeshiva. </p>
<ul>
<li>There was another neighborhood kid who was tossed out of the same Catholic school at the same age/grade/circumstances 8 years before. Both of us ended up going to Stuyvesant and he went on to Annapolis after turning down a full-ride/FA to MIT. If he’s still in the Navy, he should be coming up for promotion to Rear-Admiral in a few years.</li>
</ul>
<p>EK – I was responding to Pizzagirl</p>
<p>Originally Posted by Pizzagirl
“who embodied the pushy-Jew stereotypes.”
WHAT!?</p>
<p>also posted by Pizzagirl
“FWIW, Golffather, I’m the one who wrote that and I’m Jewish. I’m supposed to pretend there isn’t a pushy-Jew stereotype out there? And the “and they complied eventually” just reinforces it. No, the time to comply isn’t “eventually.” It is when they tell you it’s time to turn off your electronics and settle down.”</p>
<p>Yes, of course they needed to respect and comply with the rules when told to. I think the teens’ behavior needed to be addressed and the airline did what they felt appropriate, all makes good sense. I can’t believe the chaperones were so clueless as to have not intervened when they should have. Didn’t they hear the announcements?? However, I do not think it’s fair to claim they behaved this way bc they were Jewish.</p>
<p>again, if this incident involved a group of teens of a different race would you feel it’s okay to attribute their behavior to their race? it’s not right and simply bc you are Jewish does not make it okay.</p>
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<p>In fairness to Pizzagirl, she never said that they behaved this way because they were Jewish. What she said was that their behavior reinforced the stereotype of P**** Jews (sorry, but since I’m not Jewish, I really can’t type that).</p>
<p>I can see a huge difference between how you characterized her remark and what she actually said.</p>
<p>forgive me, I believe she wrote </p>
<p>“who embodied the pushy-Jew stereotypes.”</p>
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<p>I don’t know why we repeat that they learned a good lesson. They don’t think they made a mistake. How do they learn if they think other people overreacted?</p>
<p>I know what they said when it first happened. If they meant it, then they didn’t learn from the mistake. I’m not excusing them. I’m considering the possibility that they said something in the heat of the moment, but even if they meant what they said, they can still reconsider it. There’s been enough criticism of what they did that surely they will read and hear about it.</p>
<p>Joblue has it exactly right.</p>
<p>only misbehaving passengers should have been kicked off.</p>
<p>…and sent home by the CHAPRONES. Airline crew shouldn’t have to deal with it. From what I read the group chose to deplane with misbehaving kids. It is possible the airline had no idea they would end up kicking off a hundred passengers.</p>
<p>PL, In the heat of the moment? How long is a moment? A day or two? The school decided to launch an investigate if their kids were mistreated after a day or two. The chaprones sat through the commotion for 10-20 minutes, I would think, the crew announce and go around check, come back to kids ask them in person and check probably ask them again and go get the captain to intervene. That’s not a moment. Calling it done in the heat of the moment is stretching the meaning of the word and excusing the behavior imo.</p>
<p>Two things I don’t understand. One, why didn’t the chaperones do something constructive to cut off the problem. And two, why do we think the kids would behave for the chaperones, but not for the flight crew. The pilots and the crew are responsible for the lives of every single person on a plane, and should not be treated as if they were substitute teachers in an unruly classroom. These kids should be made to read about the miracle on the Hudson.</p>
<p>" One, why didn’t the chaperones do something constructive to cut off the problem. "</p>
<p>Apparently they were sitting bunched together at the front of the plane, not amongst the students. If those eyewitness reports are true, then the kids could have been holding a black sabbath in the back of the plane, and the chaperones wouldn’t have known.</p>
<p>I don’t know why everyone is focused on the chaperaones. These were high school seniors, who, I imagine, are about to head off to college. I mean, there are no chaperones in college.</p>
<p>Of course, the response of the chaperones is another story. That they decided to “blame” the airlines for the students’ bad behavior does not bode well for 100 more well behaved flyers in our air. Common decency, people. Not to mention safety.</p>
<p>Because they had charprones? Clearly they were there to keep an eye on. Why would they tag along if they were not going to do anything to maintain order and safety? Presumably, the kids had instructions on how to behave during the trip from chaprones and the consequences of misbehavior. The chaprones have a greater authority than airlines crew. Chaprones can send misbehaving kids home and impose other disciplines in a school trip.</p>
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<p>True, but there are the following to keep in mind:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Many high school seniors are still minors under the law.</p></li>
<li><p>HS designated chaperones are substitute parents and have corresponding responsibilities over their student charges for the duration of the trip. Just like a supervisor of a group or a business owner is legally responsible for the actions of his/her employees during business hours, chaperones are responsible for the behavior of their charges. By sitting in the front where they’re not in a position to properly supervise…they were derelict in their duties. </p></li>
<li><p>While one is under the auspices of a given high school not designated for post 18+ year olds/adult learners, one tends to be administratively regarded as a minor due to #1…even if one is 18+ before HS graduation.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I view this a a colossal “FAIL” by the individual students and chaperones. On American Airlines (the major carrier out of DFW while my son was pre-teen), only minors under the age of 12 must have an accompanying 16 year old or older or they must pay to have AA give the child special treatment. Under 12–not 17 or 18. My son flew solo Dallas-Denver, Dallas-Colorado Springs, El Paso-Dallas, San Antonio-Dallas on different occasions starting at age 12. Not one problem.</p>
<p>At least most airlines believe a 12 year old and up is capable of behaving on a plane, including following the rules. Everyone of those students are capable of understanding the rules and obeying them. </p>
<p>The chaperones simply did not do their “job”. Seven or eight chaperones accompanying 101 kids could have resulted in a chaperone sitting on about every third row surrounded by his or her 12 or 13 students.</p>
<p>I have only a little sympathy for the “non-misbehaving” students. I’ve chaperoned all middle school boy outings. The chaperones told the group up front that we were requiring “group” proper behavior and that it was up to the group to see that the group behaved. We specified that included seeing to it that someone who was getting out of line stopped that conduct.</p>
<p>It’s fine. I just know if it were my kid, I wouldn’t care about the chaperones.</p>
<p>I would expect her to behave herself. End of story.</p>
<p>She’s a leader. The other kids would have gotten in line. All it takes is the lead kids to make a decision and then it goes well. How I see the chaperones as responsible is that they really should have been sitting with the kids. At the same time, these are kids who will be going to college. I sure hope they can figure out how to handle themselves now.</p>
<p>07dad…not sure how a 12 year old flying along has anything to do with this story of 100 high school kids flying together.</p>
<p>After thinking about this a little more, it is very possible that they group was so caught up in talking among themselves that they did not hear the announcements…saying possible not probable. Sometimes you get a group of teenagers together and they are oblivious of what is happening around them. If the was the case, then it was up to the chaperones to take charge…that’s what they are there for.</p>
<p>Also, all I read was about announcements to sit down, did ant flight attendant actually physically go up to the group and ask them to be seated? That seems like the logical thing that would occur. I can’t believe the group would disobey direct orders from a flight attendant to sit down.</p>
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<p>Young kids, kids well below 17 or 18 know how to behave on an airplane and do behave all the time. So, IMO every one of those 17-18 year olds were capable of behaving. Not all of them did in this incident.</p>
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<p>I read this plane holds 137 passangers. That means all but six rows of the plane was “the group.” Every report has been that the attendants did direct the group on what to do/stop doing and then had the pilot come on the intercom and state it again.</p>
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<p>End of discussion then. I’ve been on several flights where the attendants and pilot have come on and pleaded with the boarding passanger to stow and sit asap to allow the plane to depart before the airport closed down for weather. The last three time resulted in twice the passangers did not get it done and we sat, and sat and sat. </p>
<p>The last time it worked, the passangers got invloved in helping the remaining people stow their stuff, calling out where there were open bins and even taking soft bags to stow under their own seats.</p>
<p>This spring I flew to Mexico with 6 teenagers. It was a 6am flight and they were all close friends so the laughing, texting and chatting was nonstop. They were so distracted I had to literally hold a couple of kids’ arms, look them directly in the eyes and say, “It’s time to put the cell phone away NOW!” They were all good kids but between being overtired and overexcited their brains just weren’t in full working order.</p>
<p>This is the chaperone’s job, to be the brains for kids when they’re acting brainless. I’m sure the kids I brought would have been more focussed if they were on their own. The fact that I was there gave them a buffer because they knew I’d fill them in if something important happened.</p>