11/22/63 – February CC Book Club Selection

Parent Cafe
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<p>King obviously has no love for Dallas, TX. My earlier complaint re his use “Don’t Mess With Texas” stemmed not only from the anachronism but also because King uses it to reinforce a particular (negative) image of Dallas, TX. I figure either King knows the slogan’s background and uses it out of context to set the atmosphere he wants or else saw it on a fact-finding trip to Dallas and took it (inaccurately) at face-value, letting the words reinforce his own negative image of the city. </p>

<p>I so agree with the following:</p>

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<p>I don’t mind the time reset so much with regard to Oswald/JFK or even Harry and Sadie, since I know their futures. However, I want to know that life for student Mike Coslaw turns out okay (I attached to him) and the young family Jake Epping spends the day with to prevent the hunting accident. Obviously the hunting accident happens with the time reset and I really don’t want it to. </p>

<p>For me, one of the great strengths of the book comes from King’s portrayal of secondary characters. They came to life for me. I even liked hardened, rough Ivy Templeton and Rosette. (I think “liked” may be the wrong word here but then again maybe not. :))</p>

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<p>Yes, King did seem to have compassion for Ivy Templeton and Rosette! I appreciated that.</p>

<p>Chaz Frati, the Jewish bookmaker and pawnshop owner, was another matter. I’m not Jewish, but I couldn’t believe how King had Chaz winkingly sneak the lobster in the bar, saying, “Don’t tell the Rabbi”…and “Well, the Catholics eat meat on Friday when they’re not supposed to…”</p>

<p>I could be wrong, but that seemed “off” to me.</p>

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<p>Jack Ruby was 56. It was Lee Harvey Oswald who was 24. A baby! When I think of my own kids, it’s hard to believe Oswald was that young.</p>

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<p>I agree. That wasn’t really a butterfly effect –- more like a woolly mammoth effect! In case anyone wants more details on the butterfly effect: [Butterfly</a> effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect]Butterfly”>Butterfly effect - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>Re the ending: I thought I knew how the book was going to end, but I was wrong. My own personal alternate ending was this: After “re-setting” the mess he has made, Jake returns to the portal and learns that he must become the next Yellow Card Man, taking his turn as Guardian of the Gates to prevent another time traveler from making the same mistakes that he did. So Sadie and the world are saved, but Jake is left to linger in a sort of purgatory, and gradually goes mad. </p>

<p>Not very upbeat, but hey, I was trying to think like Stephen King! Glad I was wrong. :)</p>

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<p>I know-it’s startling to think Lee Harvey Oswald was younger than my son is now! (I meant to type his name but was in a hurry-thanks Mary 13!)
I must have been thinking about Jack Ruby because he is always the one that points to some sort of conspiracy to me. He was a strip club owner who had a lot of organized crime (and police!) connections. It never made sense to me that he would shoot Oswald in public merely because Ruby felt sorry for Jackie Kennedy-I always thought it was to silence him.
Like that alternate ending Mary! interesting!</p>

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<p>Mary13 I like your ending!</p>

<p>But I did like the ending of the book. :)</p>

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<p>I agree with BUandBC about the dystopia section of the book. I found it weak, which was disappointing, and I didn’t like it. It felt to me that he wasn’t sure how to have the book come to a conclusion and it felt hurried and not in keeping with the very good story-telling feel of the rest of the book. </p>

<p>Ignatius, I, too, was struck by the strength of the secondary characters. King did a good job with them and I felt that they were vividly portrayed, much moreso than Jake. Perhaps that was a conscious choice by King? </p>

<p>Mary, I wondered part way through if Jake was going to become the next Yellow Card Man. I’m glad to hear that I wasn’t the only one.</p>

<p>Overall, I enjoyed the book very much. It didn’t feel long to me, other than in the sense that I couldn’t wait to see how it would end. I enjoyed the relaxed feel of the story and I had no desire for him to speed things up, or shorten it so that some of the smaller elements of the story would be lost. I found it a very visual book. I had the people, the streets, the houses and apartments, the cars, the stores all very clearly in my mind to the point that I was seeing the movie! </p>

<p>King to me is a great storyteller, even with his occasional missteps and flaws. I don’t consider him a great writer, though, in same way that I’d consider Michael Chabon or Colum McCann a great writer. </p>

<p>I haven’t had a chance to read the linked articles but will try to find time later today. They look like they’ll be interesting. Mary, this was a great choice!</p>

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<p>This is (I think) the fourth Stephen King book I’ve read over the years and I would say that creating memorable secondary characters is one of his greatest talents. (In addition to Ivy, Rosette, etc. mentioned earlier, I also liked the intuitive Mrs. Poulin.)</p>

<p>I think King had a little trouble with the historic characters—the ones he couldn’t make up. I didn’t find Lee and Marina Oswald particularly interesting and the brief phone interaction that Jake had with John and Jackie Kennedy seemed awkward.</p>

<p>Re Jake’s character: Maybe King intended Jake to be an Everyman—so that the reader could imagine himself/herself in the same role—and therefore Jake was not as colorful or as quirky as he might have been. I suppose he was flippant, as others have pointed out, but that just sounded a lot like King himself to me. The “voice “ of the Afterword could have been Jake’s.</p>

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<p>You’re exactly right. From the author:</p>

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<p>^^^ Jake sounded like King to me also.</p>

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<p>I did too!</p>

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<p>I thought so too … which begs the question: who gets the unfortunate role of “yellow card” man? Also, I guess the yellow card man must know something of the future (a future he can’t stop). The yellow card man shouts “Jimla” to Jake in 1958; Jake heads toward Jodie (and Jim LaDue) in 1960. The yellow card man must have some inkling of Jake’s path through the past to do that, right, or maybe he just senses a “Jimla” monster like the little hellion Rosette does in her dreams? Maybe the obdurate past makes itself heard - creepily. Still, it makes Jake’s travels through the past seem preordained somehow. (Or did I miss something?)</p>

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<p>Re Jake sounding like Stephen King…do you guys mean how King sounds in interviews, or how his narrators often sound?</p>

<p>I must admit that I have never noticed a trend of flippant narrators in the novels. (I don’t know to what extent I have ever viewed or read interviews.) I have read probably fewer than ten King books in my life, though I have read a few of his short stories here and there. The most recent novels of his that I read before this one were “Cell” in 2006 and “Bag of Bones” in 1998.</p>

<p>In my opinion, Jake was not so much Everyman as a basically NON-spiritual, NON sentimental guy. I think this offset the somewhat spiritual, sentimental aspects of the book in order to give it wider appeal. </p>

<p>One thing that was interesting about Jake was how he quoted AA slogans that he’d learned from his ex-wife. Sometimes he sounded cynical about these slogans, and other times he seemed to find them rather inspiring. It was as if King was walking a fine line, and certain characteristics of Jake almost cancelled others out.</p>

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<p>^^^ Stephen King has more than a passing familiarity with AA. I would think both cynicism and inspiration fit in somehow. </p>

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<p>[Paris</a> Review - The Art of Fiction No. 189, Stephen King](<a href=“http://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/5653/the-art-of-fiction-no-189-stephen-king]Paris”>Paris Review - The Art of Fiction No. 189) </p>

<p>NJCM: I heard the Stephen King of interviews speak through Jake: easiest example can be found in Jake’s impressions of Dallas and King’s afterword comments regarding Dallas. Some political asides uttered by Jake can also trace their way back to King. Did Stephen King feel close to the narrator in 11/22/63? Well, King graduated from Lisbon Falls High School. He graduated college a B.A. in English and earned a certificate to teach high school English. I’d also bet he substituted before finding a job.</p>

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<p>I thought the earthquakes strained credulity, too. However, I stumbled across a self-interview with Stephen King and learned I just need to flex my credulity more. :wink: (In the interview, Stephen King refers to the French movie Tell No One based on the book by Harlen Coben. I read that book and saw the movie and agree the ending stretched credulity to the breaking point.)</p>

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<p>Ignatius, good research!</p>

<p>Mimi in the book also told Jake/George that if he published his murder novel, he’d never be able to have a teaching job again (early 60s prejudices). It made me wonder if King had had that experience before writing made him wealthy.</p>

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<p>I never quite got the significance of Jimla-I know it referred to the young football star in Jodie-but why was it also known to the card man? I’m sure it’s obvious, but I missed the significance.</p>

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<p>Didn’t seem off to me at all. Chaz also has a tattoo, which is another Jewish no-no, especially less than 20 years after the end of WWII. </p>

<p>Add me to the list of people who thought that Jake was going to end up as the Green Card Man. </p>

<p>I didn’t feel invested in whether or not JFK was saved, because it was clear that in the end he would die, because obviously we live in a world where JFK was assasinated. There was the mystery of if Kennedy’s death came because Jake’s quest failed or because Jake caused a reset, intentionally or not. What kept the plot moving for me was how we were going to get to that point, and also how the force of an angry obdurate history would “punish” Jake and Sophie. </p>

<p>The NYT reporter really thought that the best time travel novel before this was “The Time Machine”? Good heavens, that’s someone who really doesn’t read much science fiction. :wink: I do love books where you get time travel plus historical fiction. Anyone else ever read Jack Finney’s “Time and Again”?</p>

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<p>This was my first Stephen King novel. I didn’t dislike the book, but I also didn’t love it. It’s a book that I’m glad I read, but not enthusiastically recommending to others.</p>

<p>They yellow card man confused me, too. King tried to explain who he was (beginning on page 794) when Jake asked the now green card man, “Who are you? And why to you call me Jimla?.” The man told Jake, “I’ve stayed away from your string as much as possible, but it hasn’t been entirely possible. Besides, there are so many strings now. Thanks to you and your friend the cook, there’s so much crap.” </p>

<p>Even rereading it now, it’s confusing and we’re not really told who the “card men” actually are. The card man mentioned training, but from who? He also mentioned he was from Seattle. I get the sense they are people who found the “rabbit hole”, but it effects them differently and they can’t go back. Their job is to keep track of the reality “strings” of the future. On page 798 Jake starts to understand that the future was “on strings”." Like a puppet."</p>

<p>So, Jake and Al made changes to the future and these guys kept track of them. I still don’t know why or how. They called Jake, “Jimla”, because they had seen or heard it in Jake’s strand.</p>

<p>This section of the book also suggests that the earthquakes are caused from reality strands getting snarled around each other. The strands of the new future tangling with the strands of the real future. Jake called it a rip in the “time-space continuum.”</p>

<p>Now, I’m going to throw a monkey wrench is this already confusing place. Kyle, the first yellow card man, called Jake “Jimla” when he came through the hole the second time. This was before Jake knew Jim “Jimla” LaDue. So are the strands for the new future in place as soon as Jake returns to 1958, even though Jake hasn’t experienced anything yet and doesn’t know what he is going to experience?</p>

<p>Oh, and for some reason I never thought of Jake becoming a card man. I thought he might get stuck in the past, but card man never entered my mind. </p>

<p>Slitheylove - I love time travel plus historical fiction. I’m going to check out that Jack Finney book.</p>

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<p>Thanks for commenting on the Frati question, SlitheyTove. Somehow I had thought that a Jew who kept kosher wouldn’t “cheat,” much less cheat and joke about it, but maybe I’m naive.</p>

<p>I do know Muslim people who might “transgress” by having an alcoholic beverage (in a non-public setting), but those same people would never, ever dream of eating pork.</p>

<p>I wasn’t aware of the proscription on tattoos. I wonder how widely known this is, and whether Stephen King would have known about it?</p>

<p>I guess I’m just curious whether these two aspects of Frati were mistakes King made (he certainly made some major boo-boos in the book, such as saying that census data that identifies individuals is not confidential!!) or whether they accurately represented a certain type of person.</p>

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<p>It wasn’t obvious to me either. I just looked at it as a piece of the “residue” that the Yellow Card man warns Jake about –- “Jimla” is a mantra that foretells both what Jake will soon encounter in his time travels and the horrors those travels will bring about.</p>

<p>Why do you think the card was always yellow for Al, but Jake saw black, green, orange, ocher, etc.? Does that somehow signify the degree of global change effected by each of his visits back in time?</p>

<p>The Yellow Card Men reminded me of the fedora-wearing goons from “The Adjustment Bureau.” In both cases, their job is to keep a man from altering human destiny—and in both cases, they are not very competent at what they do. :)</p>

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<p>NJTheaterMom, it’s pretty clear to me that Frati isn’t an observant Jew, and doesn’t keep kosher. He’s just joking about being concerned about a rabbi finding out he’s eating shellfish. Not uncommon then or now. :slight_smile: I’m guessing he picked up the tattoo in the service, possibly before the end of the war and the liberation of the concentration camps. Hard for me to imagine that a Jewish man, feeling at least some social ostracism for his ethnic background, would willingly get a tattoo after seeing the number tattoos, but that’s just me speculating. </p>

<p>One of the saddest things for me was seeing that Harry the janitor just couldn’t catch a break. Heartbreaking for Jake that he’d have to live afterwards knowing that he couldn’t save that family. Not to mention that football Jim probably ended up being redshirted if not worse because Jake wasn’t there to toss the liquor bottle over the fence, that Mike might never end up finding his artistic talents, that the wife of the hunter who accidentally shot the little girl would have that burden of guilt on her–just all the little bits of good lost in history. Thank heavens that Sadie survived, else I think he’d go mad. </p>

<p>Now I’m remembering Mark Twain’s novella “The Mysterious Stranger”, which also touches on the theme of how sometimes what seems unbearably painful is, of all options, the most merciful.</p>

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<p>On page 794 it says:</p>

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The above quote appears to represent the state of the card men at the various colors, but I think it goes more like this:
Green - New card man who doesn’t follow too many strands yet. His head is still clear.
Yellow - Caution, more strands are cluttering the card man’s mind.
Orange - Warning, more strands and things aren’t looking good for the card man.
Black - Overwhelming number of strands, insanity and death.</p>

<p>When Al started traveling back, he only changed minor things, just a little bit of residue, just a little bit of disturbance. The last time Al went through, he stayed until a little bit before Kennedy’s assassination. More time, more residue, more strands…the card turns orange. When Jake went the first time, he made a bigger impression on the future by killing Harry’s father…more change, more residue, more strands…when he goes through the second time, the card is black and the man dies. When he goes back to return to the present, the man is new and his card is green, but it’s already changing, even as Jake is talking to him. When Jake goes back through the last time the man’s card is ocher, “halfway between green and yellow”. It will keep changing, unless Jake goes back to the present.</p>

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<p>BuandBC82- great summary of the “yellow/green/ black” card men!</p>

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<p>Thanks. I think I forgot one of Jake’s trips. On his first trip he just went into 1958 for a short visit to check it out. The second trip is when he killed Harry’s father.</p>