@sevmom When should children participate in politics? Not a day before their 18th birthday?
“When should children participate in politics?”
Starting to form an opinion about things in the world is a good thing at any age. Caring about issues can certainly start before age 18. I just don’t participate in political forums although I do follow politics and the issues of the day.
Having a profoundly gifted kid is not that different from having one who is severely delayed. You search for the best way to educate your child, but nothing geared for normal children is ever going to be a good fit. I’ve seen parents with kids at both ends of the spectrum really flail as they try to provide both an educational and social fit.
I don’t doubt that this kid’s parents struggled throughout his life to give him the education he needed. No one pushes their kid into college at 12.
^^ This is exactly right. And each case has to be handled individually. College at 12 is seldom the best option even for profoundly gifted kids, but finding an educational and social fit is an individual process, and for this kid it may possibly be the best option.
Anyone truly interested in the topic should read Giftedness 101 by Dr. Linda Silverman.
“You read the books, you don’t sit around talking about them with a group of peers.” Hmm. Maybe you don’t. My kid spends a great deal of time discussing books with peers.
It also matters what is meant by “college” when one says “college at 12”. There can be a difference between being a matriculated college student versus taking a few college courses in areas of academic strength while otherwise in another school.
" a few college courses"
Something like that can suddenly turn to be 5 courses with 18 units next semester. While a matriculated student can take 12 or less units to accommodate other activities. The line can be blur.
“Suppose the OPs child had gotten into Harvard. Would he feel comfortable running around the yard at midnight without any clothes. Would he feel comfortable peeing on the statute of John Harvard. These are all UG traditions at Harvard.”
Wow, @collegedad13, just when I thought I had heard all the cliches about why academic acceleration is bad for gifted kids, you come up with an entirely new one. Peeing on the statue of John Harvard must be the essential experience all Harvard grads must take away - if they have managed to learn or accomplish nothing else they must have peed. Well, one thing I am confident in, a twelve year old boy can pee with the best of them, age appropriate or not.
Now I know why it took them so long there to admit women - they may not feel so comfortable with the peeing thing, so of course the rest of the education there must be wasted on them.
@NinaReilly, @SculptorDad, there is also Bard College at Simons Rock and a program at USC. But I do not think any of them take 12 year olds.
I read about PEG at Mary Baldwin that the exceptionally gifted kids there didn’t find it an academic fit in spite of the radical acceleration, because the regular population is academically at a very different level.
Personally, if I lived in the US and my kid was this much out there, I’d try Reno, in order to drag out college matriculation until 15 or 16 if possible, so the kid found a better social fit for undergrad and could really find their fit at 18 for grad school, but of course at least the dad needs to find a job in the area if they want to keep the family together.
Ronan Farrow entered Bard at Simon’s Rock at 11 years old in 1999. He graduated at 15, went to Yale Law, and at 21 became Special Adviser for Humanitarian and NGO Affairs in the Office of the Special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan in the Obama administration. He then won a Rhodes to study at Oxford, although I think he left before finishing his PhD. He now works as a journalist focusing on politics and public policy.
@Tigerle
This page lists of most of official early entrance programs in the U.S.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_School_and_Early_Entrance_Program
The three I listed are often called “radically early entrance programs” as they all regularly accepted 12 year old: PEG (now 13, but used to be 12), EEP (11), EEP/Transition (12)
There was a website with few hundreds of detailed testimonials of former students of the programs. Some hated it. But more loved it. Especially for PEG, I personally know two young women and exchanged emails with another. They all found the program great. (It’s gone now. For privacy reason i believe, since many students were identifiable)
All three women did find it not challenging enough eventually. But they all transferred to great or prestigious universities after 2 years at still radically young age. And PEG sort of worked as a spring board since two of those colleges don’t usually don’t take younger students, much less younger transfer students.
Simon’s Rock and Reno programs are very reputable as well.
Several friends I knew who attended Bard College/Simon’s rock knew of or started there at 12 or younger.
In fact, even at my own LAC, I had a few classmates who started at ~12 as one 14 year old junior I knew and the friend a few years ahead of me who GRADUATED with honors at 17.
And according to the parents of the latter, he had been living independently and managing his own logistics and even managing most of the college finances(scholarships/FA) himself with exceedingly minimal parental assistance.
Incidentally, his parents treated him more like an independent capable late twenty/thirty-something adult and with his track record since he was under 12, it was justly merited.
In contrast, he had an older sister who wasn’t accelerated and started undergrad at 18. It was the younger brother who was guiding her on college applications and college life…especially considering she was starting her undergrad just as he was graduating.
My apologies, I had only skimmed the thread before opining that special colleges for just this type of child might be beneficial.
However, I wonder how much of this family’s decision is more about (cynically) just wanting to say their young child attends a well-known “prestigious” institution (in no way am I insinuating Bard is not, I refer more to the maybe a bit less well-known colleges (or those more well-known with specific programs for these children)), or, (more generously), Cornell just was the best fit academically.
Neither here nor there, but my personal feeling is it’s doing a tremendous disservice to a 12-year old to send him to a true college environment (as we normally think of one).
@NinaReilly, The families I know all would prefer Cornell over Bard, not to brag about it but to provide more academic resources, more research opportunities and more challenging classes. At Cornell, this 12 yo can learn with highly smart kids who went Cornell at 18 when they could very well go to Bard at 14. That gives more challenging courses. That’s a good thing if this 12 yo kid is indeed as ready as the 18 yo who chose not to go to Bard at 14.
When your 12 yo child is matriculating, itself gives enough bragging rights and the brand name is, if any, of a very small concern.
I know mine was not ready for Cornell at 12, and wont be ready in near future. But the boy seem like at least 1~2 standard deviation higher than mine, based on his past achievement. Having seen those who are so gifted and probably real genius, I don’t find this too strange.
@NinaReilly , I agree with you in most cases the child is probably gifted, but that there might be other options than sending a 12 year old to a 4 year ‘sleep away’ college. In this case the parents aren’t just sending him away but moving with him to still be parents to the 12 year old. Could they have stayed in Texas and found a good school? I’m sure they could have, but the articles said the family traveled a lot so probably weren’t in Texas all that much anyway.
There was a tv show/contest last summer about the smartest kids. I think they had to be between 8-14 or so to be in the contest, and some were familiar faces from the National Spelling Bee and the Geography Bee. Some clearly were on the spectrum and struggled socially (there were a lot of ‘backstory’ features). The older kids did better. Most were just really good memorizers, or at least that’s the talent they exhibited since the show wasn’t asking them to compare and contrast Dickens and Twain, but to memorize a deck of cards in order, or to answer questions about world capitals. They knew a lot of facts, they were good at puzzles and math. Most were at least partially homeschooled. One of the boys who was about 13 had graduated from high school and was attending a college near his home. This still required a parent to drive him there and organize his life.
I’m sure there are many kids who are just as smart but who don’t have parents who have the time to take them to all kinds of special classes so they just go to regular school and have regular ECs on their resumes.
A place like Simon’s Rock might be a good option for some kids but I can’t see it for the one in question. He’s most interested in math/science and SRB just wouldn’t have the courses he needs. For instance, the entire chemistry curriculum consists of 10 courses, and included in those 10 are two that would essentially be considered high school chem, as well as one chem for non-majors (“The student is asked to learn chemical concepts only when they are met and as they apply to the particular situation under discussion (e.g., acid rain and pH)”) and a tutorial, leaving him primarily with a few basic organic and inorganic chemistry courses.
Who knows if attending Cornell will end up being the best option for this boy? I do know I have no basis on which to question the plan mapped out by Cornell, the student, his family, and those advising them.
“When your 12 yo child is matriculating, itself gives enough bragging rights and the brand name is, if any, of a very small concern.”
On what warped planet does someone get “bragging rights” for having a kid go to college at age 12?
“I know mine was not ready for Cornell at 12, and wont be ready in near future”
Sculptordad, the more you post, the more it sounds like you would think it was a failure if your child was only ready for Cornell at 18 like everyone else. Seriously, you really have got to stop pushing your kid through things at the speed of sound. Life is not a race and neither are academics. Heaven forbid she just have a normal high school experience and be a kid.
"Seriously, you really have got to stop pushing your kid through things at the speed of sound. Life is not a race and neither are academics. Heaven forbid she just have a normal high school experience and be a kid. "
So well said!!
“On what warped planet does someone get “bragging rights” for having a kid go to college at age 12?”
There should be none. But people are making assumptions that the family would have chose Cornell over Bard for a 12 yo boy for parents’ bragging right. In such place that would be possible.
" it was a failure if your child was only ready for Cornell at 18"
Mine is ending her 5 semesters of full-time community college career and is entering a high school this Fall, exactly because she is interested in experiencing the normal high school experience.
She didn’t want normal elementary and middle school experience. But she wants normal high school experience at the specific high school she was applied and accepted. I always let her lead, instead of pushing her to certain direction.
And who knows? Maybe the boy will want to experience high school sometime later, and I believe that the parents probably will let him. If a highschool is also willing to take him even though he is matriculated at a college, why not?
I do push her, or encourage her in my dictionary, to try her best to do what she wanted to and chose to do.
Cornell is one of her target school to apply at 18. We wouldn’t be doing so if we believed that it is a failure. We believe that it would be a great success for my dd, and possibly the best outcome.
I also believe that Cornell at 18 would be a great success for the OP boy, but I think probably Cornell at 12 is indeed a better outcome for that boy since he seems more gifted with different emotional and academic needs than my daughter has.
It’s not about how fast and how far you go. It’s only about doing what’s the best for you child at the moment, with best of your ability to support it, and let the future unfold. I understand it doesn’t seem that way with gifted kids. But not all is as it seems to outsiders.
And seriously, you really have got to stop judging other families and kids with your limited experience and standard. Education is not fixing every kids into a same shape, either emotionally or academically.