"One post mentioned doing things with FRIENDS. That is the operative word. Some kids are on the outside of things and don’t fit in. Being high end gifted makes it harder for kids to relate to many kids because most just don’t have the quickness and depth of thought they do. Being gifted means being out of synch with others. "
I don’t believe there are facts to back that up. Social skills are something that is learned. It is one thing to learn how to do physics. It is another thing learning communication skills. At 12 the kid could LEARN some social skills before going to college . It would be invaluable for his future life
The site was presented within this thread to answer that specific type of questions already. It’s not a great way to stir up a discussion claiming that you simply “don’t believe” something where credible supporting materials are already presented.
Do YOU have anything to back up your speculations except that your own kids fit just fine?
Well, maybe I am biased, SculptorDad, because I went to Cornell. Cannot imagine having classes, being lab partners, inviting a 12-year old to rush a frat (no matter how much of a nerdy, intellectual frat), accompanying said 12-yr old to lacrosse games, playing intramurals with, having him on my debate team, standing next to him for my work study job, heck, even sitting down and eating lunch with him. I also was only 17 when I started there and I was way too young at 17 for college!
I guess I just think that the college experience is about more than going to class and having research opportunities.
What PizzaGirl said in #277 a thousand times over…
I was referring to post 244 which basically said high end intellectual kids have trouble relating to other kids.
I was trying to say in response that social skills are something that is learned. One needs to take the time or else it will never happen. I know it took me years and years to learn social skills. Also from my personal observations of thousands of kids I have also found that to be the case. I think we all want the best for the 12 yo. Some of us just believe that there is a lot to be lost by proceeding in the manner in which he is proceeding.
Here is a good summary link on social skills and how they are learned
^ What makes you think that a profoundly gifted kid entering college at age 17-18 wouldn’t have the same issues? These kids are outliers who are fundamentally different than others, and intellectual ability is only one facet. They experience things more intensely, are more sensitive, more empathetic, and are highly asynchronous in their development.
There is no “right” answer and needs will vary tremendously from one profoundly gifted child to another. But the level of misunderstanding of the profoundly gifted - and the extreme challenges of parenting them - exhibited in this thread is somewhat disturbing. The parents are seldom the one “pushing” their profoundly gifted child, or looking to “rack up points” by more extreme forms of acceleration; rather, they are usually pulled behind, frantically trying to keep up with their profoundly gifted child. Acceleration is like oxygen to some of these kids, and stifling them by trying to “normalize” them often stunts them profoundly, emotionally even more than intellectually. This is not to say in any way that college at 12 is the answer for most of these kids, or that parents shouldn’t try to help develop “normal” socialization skills as much as possible. But most parents that I know of in such a situation are desperate to find any solution that will work, and have usually tried many; many have made considerable sacrifices along the way.
@NinaReilly , Can you imagine that happening if you went to a community college and not Cornell, and met my daughter instead of that boy? At 12, my dd took Biology, Chemistry and Physics with lab, Psychology, Composition, and U.S. History with group projects. If I say that she enjoyed the classes and usually took a leading roll in her group, and her data and calculations were what other groups came over to look at when they had troubles, can you believe it? Can you imagine that maybe there is a boy so smarter than my daughter, that he is capable of doing the same thing, at same age, but at Cornell and not a community college? And that there are other Cornell students who are more open than you for that idea of having a young child as their intellectual and social equal?
@collegedad13 , You are, based on your own limited experience, asserting that all gifted children, without exception, while may having difficulties, can still adjust to a middle/high school classroom and learn to adjust, which is ultimately good for them.
The source you presented does not mention or support your assertion that exceptions don’t exist at all.
You can believe anything that you want against abundant research over decades. And I can try to dispute it when you publicly claim your personal belief to be true with lack of supporting facts.
Who set up all this for a 12 year old? Biology, Chemistry, Physics, labs, psychology, history, etc all at the same time? Sounds very stressful and what was the purpose/goal for that?.
What indications do we have that this kid has poor social skills? There’s a world of difference between being socially inept and just not having a lot in common intellectually with your same-age peers. I’m sure if they feel it’s appropriate the family will be able to sign him up for some activities which involve interaction with kids his own age. I don’t see any reason he needs to sacrifice his intellectual growth simply because he won’t be able to attend keggers with his college classmates or because we think he should be able to learn how to banter about sports and girls from his same-age peers. No matter where he is this kid’s going to be a bit out of sync with those around him. Why not let him choose the manner in which he’s out of sync?
On another note, why are we so hung up on making sure this boy has friends his own age? I have plenty of friends 20 years older or younger than I am. Most kids hang out with other children their age because those are the people with whom they’re most compatible. Perhaps this kid would be happiest with 18 year olds. Again, no one here has so much as met this boy. Why do we think we have some magic insight into what he need that those closest to him lack?
She took English Composition 1A, US History II, Spanish 1A, Beginning Ceramics II and Fundamentals of Chemistry in Fall 2015 for total 18 units. It was her 4th semester and she knew what she was choosing. She planned to drop a course but later decided to keep them all because she loved them all, enjoying both the materials as well as friends. She finished with all A’s. Was it stressful at times? Of courses. But she loved to do it enough to choose to do it. She says there is some pleasure for completing difficult tasks. She became 13 near end of this semester.
In Spring 2016, she took General Biology, Alg/Trig Physics I, Special Projects in Ceramics and Social Psychology. Again, she chose the courses, especially Social Psychology that has long been in her wishlist. Although only 14 units, this was more work than the previous semester as minimizing her formal math education to give her art time finally hit back in Physics and she got her first B despite working as hard as she could. And she remembers it stressful, even though she chose to continue when the last day for drop with ‘W’ came.
The purpose/goal was fulfilling her desire for learning, and certain pleasure that comes from doing something well and be recognized as such by your peers as well as your parents. She loved doing science experiments and that’s why she took both biology and physics in the Spring semester. She loved discussing current politics with her English Composition and U.S. History II classmates. She had self studied General and Development Psychology, but wanted a discussion environment for Social Psychology, which turned out to be very enjoyable too.
Also, she wanted to apply to private high schools and wanted to show them she can do hard academic work, and has well rounded education and not just in visual arts. This part - taking college courses to impress a high school, we think was a mistake. But overall her learning and enjoying the process made it all worthwhile.
Although she picked the final courses, I was also heavily involved. I reviewed everything out their for the professors, to increase her chance for enjoyable, helpful courses with at least 50% chance of acing, I reviewed her syllabus and progress whenever she asked to see if she still has a good chance of acing, or in physics, getting a B. I also gave her advises, when she seek, on what to prioritize. For example, she didn’t have to rewrite a B essay for a class as she was going to get an A anyway, but squeeze in more time for Physics final as she really had to ace that final for a B. I don’t think I could have done it all that well without my help for she lacked life experience of navigating. But then many college students lack it too. And overall it was the best thing that could happen to her until now in terms of academics, emotional, and social growth.
@SculptorDad,
Not trying to be critical, just curious; many of the courses your daughter took at the community college strike me as being typical high school courses. Why did you make the decision to have her take them as college courses instead of at the local high school?
@Sue22, We have been homeschooling her, and colleges were easier because she already had access to three community colleges within driving distance. During the three semesters before, she mainly took art courses not available in high schools, in the last two semesters she was already applying to private high schools for the next year and putting her into a local high school for that year wasn’t the beat choice in many way. It would have been hard to convince a local high school to take a 12 yo old girl with lots of AP and advanced courses too.
For your mention on age peers. While I agree a lot, I do think friendship with a few age peers are very very important for gifted children while they are growing up. For one, knowing that your are not alone, not a freak, and there are many other children like you even though they might be scattered around is very beneficial as it satisfies human instinct of association. But you don’t have to sacrifice too much for that. Few other similarly gifted kids in other cities and even other states do a lot.
I just spent my weekend with a 12 yo - my niece. She’s a bright young lady in a “good” affluent public school district. She was telling me about the typical, normal things that a 12 yo entering 7th grade should be thinking about. Keeping up with friends from camp. What outfit she’s going to wear the first day of school. Whether she’ll be invited to a cute boy’s bar mitzvah and if so what is she going to wear. Will she be in classes with her friends this year. Will she do well in math class. Should she try out for the school play.
I am a former nerd, definite introvert, major bookworm and loved and still love learning about things. I took school very seriously and prided myself on doing well and getting the best grades in the class. I read encyclopedias for fun and did extra credit for fun. I was proudly teacher’s pet.
But still, in light of having just spent time with an actual 12 yo, I find this litany of community college courses being racked up by a 12-13 yo profoundly depressing. Who’s trying to prove what to whom? And why must everything be rushed though? Will biology class go away if it’s not taken or something?
@Pizzagirl, I think I will just repeat it one last time and then leave you all in peace. Mine, and I am guessing the OP boy too, is taking the college courses for their best immediate interest and not to rush or prove anything. Believe what you want.
As a side note, my daughter is not so different from your niece. She cares a lot about her cloths to ware in her new high school. Worries if she will do well in her math class there, etc. And like you, she did extra credit for fun (when she had time anyway) and the proud teacher’s pet in many of her classes.
Pizzagirl, I think you will find a mixed reaction to the conversational topics of your niece’s choice, as described in #293.
If I had a twelve-year-old niece who wanted to discuss those things, I would [presumably] be happy to do so, because I [presumably] love my niece. But if I had to listen to someone else’s niece discussing those topics, I would be looking for a graceful way to leave quickly. “I would love to hear more, but I have to go and walk the dog . . . for the whole weekend,” or “Um, sorry, I promised to clean out the attic.” (We don’t have anything in the attic.)
While I do not doubt that your niece is charming and socially successful, as well as bright, I think that your belief that these topics are normal for a twelve-year-old actually just illustrates the reality that bright students with typical interests are often well-served by progressing at the standard rate in school, because they fit in naturally.
When one of my nieces was 12, I recall discussing with her the “evidence” that the moon landings were faked. This was of great interest to her. I think this could be of interest to other 12-year-olds, but I don’t recall that she had any interest in talking about clothes.
My niece went through a phase at about 14-15 that I am glad has passed- thinking she was the smartest person in the room and wanting everyone to know it, expounding on things . She is 20 now and luckily seems to have moved past that. She has been much more pleasant to be around . My sons never went through that kind of phase so it was interesting.
PG, dang, I missed the boat on a normal childhood. I was nuts about the moon landings (THEY HAPPENED) and spaceflight in general, and didn’t care all too much about clothes. I wasn’t interested in drama either unless it happened on a Saturn IV rocket in the 1960s.
Oh well. Guess I’m just a socially inept waste of time who doesn’t wear makeup who will be stuck with only my nerdy engineering boyfriend for the rest of my life since I’m so unhappy and friendless because I didn’t check all the boxes a “normal, healthy 12 year old girl” would.
As a member of a local gifted homeschooling group, my daughter has been socially surrounded by kids who are way smarter, at least in one area, all the time. So she never had to feel that she was the smartest person in the room, as she obviously was not mostly. She was never the best student in her college classes except art history. And she is rather weak in math. If you met her, you would have found her humble unless you were supporting certain politicians, and never wanting to have a long conversation with who is not clearly interested and engaged.