12-Year-Old Headed to Cornell University as a Student

Different situations are different. It may be that other posters are considering classes where there are a lot more social interactions going on during class than had been common in my schooling (at any level, until grad school). That could change things.

I also wonder whether the people who think it would be a shame to miss prom had proms that were held in their high-school gyms? Decorated by the students? The table decorations (made by the juniors) at the senior prom I attended were toilet paper rolls wrapped in tissue paper, with crepe paper flowers in them. Most of the students had no more dance instruction than I had, prior to the prom–about two weeks in each of four years’ worth of phys ed. It was kind of interesting to see the principal and his wife actually dancing the cha-cha-cha, but I could have lived without it.

One more thing–I should point out that their high school in Nevada for profoundly gifted kids is FREE.

Prom - what if you hate dance anyway?

sseamom #136, it was Pizzagirl who posted about not thinking (at first) that soccer was important, because the soccer stars couldn’t do highly advanced math. But that comment was made in support of the idea that staying with age-mates was a good idea, because she got beyond that viewpoint.

That’s a good point, @sseamom- relating to other human beings kindly regardless of their intellectual level. I think it’s innately easier for some to do this than for others to do this. We humans have plenty of foibles. We’re all works in progress, I guess.

I’m not one who would think it terrible for a kid to miss prom, but my D’s prom was held at a local community center with decorations exclusively made by the students, including a Pinterest-inspired set of “skyscrapers” made with boxes painted by some of the kids. Set-up included parent helpers. You know what? It wasn’t about the venue, the decorations, or who could dance. Most of the kids COULDN’T dance. It was about the friendships and the support one has from friends. This school included kids who struggled mightily and those who worked far above the average. The beauty of it was that they all supported and valued one another.

I’m sure that’s not a typical experience, but there’s something to be said to things typical middle and HS kids do together. Hopefully, the 12 yo in the OP will find a way to do some of them.

The point about the Sudoku puzzle was that it was a colleague of mine–who is on par with me generally. I was just sort of flummoxed by his remark about spending the entire afternoon on it, for several reasons: Why would it take him that long? Also, I can understand the obsession with it, and not wanting to let the puzzle “beat” him, but at a certain point, it’s a just rather dumb puzzle in the newspaper. We didn’t have the time to go into a long disquisition about the differing values that would suggest it was better to persist, vs. abandoning it to do something more worthwhile. . . though that would also be interesting.

Also, I think there is a difference between the “I can’t talk to my plumber” attitude of Deresiewicz (https://theamericanscholar.org/the-disadvantages-of-an-elite-education/) and what I am mentioning. I deride the former. People should be able to talk with anyone, with awkward moments occurring only occasionally.

But I definitely understand the yearning for a soul-mate with whom one can communicate essentially in short-hand, and the yearning for a whole group of friends to whom one relates easily.

One more comment, and then I will let this drop: I have a step-nephew who is 7 feet tall, and talented as a basketball player. If we had been age-mates, I am sure that we would have been pleasant to each other, but since I do not have any detailed knowledge of basketball and it is still a consuming passion of his, I don’t think there would have been much basis for true friendship there. Why should it be different with any other specialized interest?

Also, the basketball player started for the high-school varsity team, starting in 9th grade. This took him away from the other students in his school (same school system, though), because of the way the schools happened to be split by grade level. Should he have been required to stay with the junior varsity, or the freshman team?

Suppose the OPs child had gotten into Harvard. Would he feel comfortable running around the yard at midnight without any clothes. Would he feel comfortable peeing on the statute of John Harvard. These are all UG traditions at Harvard.

One of the best mathematicians in the whole world is Steven Smale. He won the Fields Medal. He didn’t get the best grades in college. He got an F in a physics class. He got his PHD at 27 only after they threatened to kick him out of grad school. One of his most famous comments is “he did his best work on the beaches of Rio” The PG come in all different varieties. I doubt Steven Smale wishes he had gone to college at 12. It sounds like he would have missed out on a lot.

Well, every great mathematician is different. Smale entered college at the usual age of 18, eventually earning a PhD at age 27. Terence Tao earned bachelor’s and master’s degrees at age 16 and a PhD at age 21. Nothing wrong with either path for them, as it led to success for both of them.

On the other hand, it is certainly possible that there are people who took similar paths but did not do anything noteworthy, but may have succeeded to a much greater degree taking the other path, but no one writes about them.

The same thing happened to my younger daughter in the robotics program, but only once. She did not strike back, immediately went and told the coach, and serious consequences were levied on the kid, including anger management counseling and removal from the robotics program for a minimum of six months. Had he marked her or damaged her in any way we would have called the police and had him arrested for assault. Luckily for him she was not physically hurt, just stunned.

He returned much improved, and his attitude towards our daughter was much better (chastened would be a good word to describe it). Our daughter has the satisfaction of knowing she did the right thing by reporting it, and despite dealing with a principal who said to her “what did you do to make him hit you” (yes really!), she gained a lot of confidence from the situation overall.

So my opinion was that you should have handled what happened, not ignored it.

Back to your regularly scheduled discussion…

Most friendships aren’t soulmate level relationships, and in fact a lot develop through circumstance or a shared interest that may not be at all cerebral. Between the ages of 10-16, I was a (perfectly middle-of-the-pack) swimmer. I may or may not have had much else in common with many of my teammates, but for the purposes of discussing times and team gossip, or going out for ice cream or movies after a match, we were compatible enough. None turned into an enduring lifelong friendship, but I certainly valued those relationships at the time, and still think fondly of those days. And, of course, some of my more intellectually based friendships didn’t last either.

In any event, I do think there are rare students for whom rapid academic acceleration in school is the only option. Not usually, but sometimes. That isn’t because the kid is so profoundly gifted that he couldn’t possibly be expected to relate to peers on any level, but because if a student really is just so far ahead that he isn’t getting anything educationally from his grade-level classes, it is silly and possibly cruel to hold him back. As others have suggested, there are other ways for the child to interact with age-mates than at school.

Age segregation for whether academics or social activities is not natural. In the U.S., it only started less than 200 years ago. During the rest of history, people have developed healthy social skills without ever being subjected to such condition.

And even now, it ends with schooling. In real life, you are unlikely grouped at either work or social gatherings by equal age, ability, or rank.

So why is the skill of relating with age peers so important to learn for those who exiting the system earlier by starting college and likely won’t return to high school with age peers?

^^Because children are different. They are not tiny little adults.

^^But are they so different and have different needs than the children of until 200 years ago, that they now need age segregation?

Or is it possible, that age segregation is more for the convenience of adults who run the system?

^^Oh yes, let’s go back to the educational and social systems from 200 years ago, because they had it all figured out. :expressionless:

[pulls out copy of Oliver Twist and Upton Sinclair’s “The Jungle”]

Ooh ooh ooh, Mr. Kotter, Mr. Kotter … please call on me !! I know why we try to keep age peers together :slight_smile:

  1. A lot of children’s interaction involves physical play or sports. Hard (though not impossible) for an average 7 year old and an average 12 year old to play sports like basketball or baseball together.

  2. When children hit the age of 11-14, various … uh, biological … changes occur. Girls change shape into young women. The average teenage boy often becomes very interested in … uh, these shape changes, and about 80% of their brains are suddenly devoted to exploring this newfound passion for solid geometry.

Socializing among post-puberty teens is very different from socializing among pre-puberty children. They have different interests.

That’s a big reason why we generally send high school students to high school, middle school students to middle school, and elementary school students to elementary school - or some variation of the above - instead of just throwing them together into one big building.

^^I am not denouncing advancement in the 200 years. Rather I am just pointing out that it is an artificial system with shorter history than it seems. It is common that such systems serve the majority, but not every single person.

And the system was more likely designed as a tool for easier control, and not for the individual students benefit.

Most of all, age segregation is at best a useful tool and not a virtue by itself. Some are better off without the tool, and they shouldn’t be pulled back in just for the virtue of the system.

You just found the reason why boys are better at math. I bow down to you! ^:)^