@al2simon, While I agree with all your points, I think, I wish…, at least for some of the teens, that there are more important things than the solid geometry in the social interactions - such as poetry, politics, and saving the world.
Dear angry, pitchfork bearing mob,
I did not make that comment about boys being better at math. @hebegebe did.
He has orange hair and is wearing a red shirt with black stripes. He went that way —>
Spare me and I promise to stay up all night watching Thelma and Louise and Sex and the City reruns.
Sincerely,
“You just found the reason why boys are better at math. I bow down to you”
I guess sexism is alive and well. This goes along with the reference to dealing with the “retarded”
Yes, we’ve artificially created a system based on age but you can’t compare childhood now to childhood 200 years ago (when childhood wasn’t actually a thing). I could go into a whole long rant about why the educational system was created but I’ll spare everyone 
I was always big (off the charts tall) and emotionally/intellectually ahead of my peers. My friend group was always several years older than me. I get that people develop at different times and I don’t have a problem with students skipping a grade or two… maybe even three.
But really, a 12 year old is still going to be much different from his 18-25 year old peers. From a biological, neurological, physical standpoint, this is true. That has been true for centuries and isn’t the result of an artificial system.
I admit that dd had some difficulties and stress from that at 11.
But by 12, especially when she started wearing make ups and mature but not revealing (mom’s) clothing, it didn’t prevent her to collaborate in study group and labs, exchanging texts on school related subjects or jokes, or even hanging around at library or cafe with her 18~25 years old classmates any longer.
After all, they had common interests on academics, politics and pop cultures, with compatible intellectual level to enable interesting discussions. They also valued her help in chemical equations or sharing homework answers and class notes.
Also, hanging with older students didn’t prevent her to also hang around with same age kids at her climbing gym or homeschooling social groups.
She has never learned to connect to some of younger kids who are still maturing. But now that she is 13, and her same aged kids are also 13, she will never need to know how to deal with 10 years old kids as a 10 years old kids.
As is apparently the inability to understand a joke.
Let’s break this down point by point:
- Not every child/person enjoys partaking in physical play or sports, especially at the highest competitive levels. Just like not every child/person is interested in partaking in intellectual/academic activities, especially...
I’m wondering how much of this point is influenced by what is a far greater and arguably excessive emphasis on athletics/sports in K-12 and colleges here in the US versus what exists in other societies/cultures where it’s regarded as a high-level pastime not too different from other pastimes/ECs.
- Not every 11-14 year old is heavily/100% completely controlled by his/her hormones. And among most adolescent peers I or most relatives/friends knew back when we were in middle/HS....someone behaving like #2 heavily tended to be derided by teen peers and older adults for "lacking self-control"/"having misplaced priorities" and those behaving like #2 tended to be taken less seriously until they stopped.
I don’t think it is as cut and dried and simple as portrayed above. There’s a wider continuum among 11-14 year olds and people in general regarding hormones depending on age and/or how one was socialized by family/peer groups. And contrary to some “concerned” parents/older adults, if some don’t conform to the timetable described in the quoted post, that’s fine.
Of course it’s for the convenience of the adults.
But when practically all of the young people in our society live in an age-segregated world, it’s hard for the few who don’t to find a way to fit in. Like the boy who prompted this thread, they are confronted with age-segregated environments where they don’t fit. Obviously, this boy is quite different from most other children his own age. But he’s also different from the much older students he will be going to school with at Cornell.
I hope modern technology is helping kids like him out. They need peers – and there are other kids like them scattered around the country. I wonder whether there are online resources that allow them to get to know other people in situations similar to their own.
This boy’s situation would be entirely different if he lived in a society where young people weren’t segregated by age. But that isn’t going to happen.
I stand by my not using current euphemisms- retarded is retarded regardless of whichever term du jour you choose. It point blank means slow, and statistically significantly so. I do not care about offending people with facts- go ahead and do your substitutions. “Special Ed”, “Special Needs” terms by rights include the gifted. Wisconsin began changing their wording while son was in school because gifted parents caught on to this- their kids need more than the typical education and money spent on them (for those hung up on the monetary return on an educational investment it could be greater than the huge amounts poured into the other end of the Bell curve). So the state changed terminology to avoid having to spend more money.
NO need to learn Spanish in Florida (or the rest of the country, for that matter). Definitely the need for Spanish speakers to learn English to communicate with all of the other immigrants. I chose French in HS, added German in college. H’s family knows English and two Indian languages- three alphabets- why would they add Spanish? 35,000 Indians in the Tampa Bay area alone. Also, so many different Spanish speakers in Florida- highly educated neighbors told us how Puerto Ricans speak it in a way that makes it harder for other Spanish speakers to follow. Cubans are not the same as Mexicans, or other Spanish speakers that come to Florida from Central and South America. How about the French speakers from the Caribbean? Why should Asians from many cultures in California who have English as their second language need to accommodate one group? Educate all of the children.
Hoagies- one of the great gifted websites. Thank you poster pages back for giving the link. btw- I think they are being generous in their levels of giftedness- most states will not give recognition for the lowest level. Look at the numbers listed for high IQ’s- hard to find even online. Plus, gifted people have many other facets to their personalities- interests, abilities, cultures (family, religious, geographic…).
Again- highly gifted children are not pushed- they are just not held back.
Think outside your box, folks. Learn about the topic. Google gifted and similar terms.
This highly gifted boy would still have special needs with older children around because he still wouldn’t be at the same thought processing level as most of them. Being gifted means asynchronous development. What happens to kids once they become adults? So much depends on how society molds them. Prisons. Hiding intelligence.
So much easier to be among the masses, preferable above average but with a lot in common.
Obviously high intelligence doesn’t always include empathy or sensitivity. Smh.
Many of the social groups of youth are divided by age groups, not as often anymore by school grades. Some sports teams have always had strict age divisions, like hockey or little league. More are moving to that rather than grade because the grade age range can spread over two years. Other groups like boy scouts and girl scouts have a range, but also limits. They don’t want a 6 year old joining the cadets even if that 6 year old is in 6th grade. If a 12 year old is in high school, will there be a part in the school play or a spot on the softball team?
Mine went to a k-8 school for k-5, so I was used to seeing 13 year old 8th graders, but the day I dropped my 10 year old off at the middle school and saw these HUGE 8th grade men waiting to go in, I was shocked. I’m sure many of them were 15, had facial hair and outweighed the teachers. The school pretty much kept the 6th graders separate, but some of them were kind of scary too. The first day two 6th grade girls had a fist fight in the bathroom, hit a teacher and were expelled. My daughter was pretty scared. I was a more used to it when she was 13 going to high school with 18 year olds, but I still wasn’t entirely comfortable. I can’t imagine sending a 10 year old to high school or college without a good deal of chaperoning. No matter how smart they are, they are still physically 10.
@sseamom wrote
I know you said this out of frustration, but I think that there is a TON of truth to this in fact. I think a lot of people need to be taught sensitivity and sympathy (because empathy requires that you share the experience), just like they are taught math and chemistry.
There are some people who are super gifted with sensitivity and sympathy, and boy, would they be bored in those classes. 
“I do not care about offending people with facts”
That seems unfortunate. The word has been identified as being pejorative for many, many years.
Cool! I’m going to start to start calling black people “colored.” Or maybe “darkies.” And I’ll call Asian people “Oriental.” Think that’s a good plan in the year 2016?
Wis75, maybe this isn’t how you intend to come across, but you come across as so profoundly impressed by your own giftedness (as if you’re really any smarter or more intellectual than the rest of us) that you just can afford to be oblivious to today’s norms. You revel in being “above” the mainstream, even to the point that when women on CC have friendly lighthearted discussions on makeup or fashion, you huff and puff about how superficial it all is. Heaven forbid you actually try to learn from anyone else. We are doing you a favor by telling you that the term “retarded” is not what’s used anymore. A simple “thank you, I didn’t know that” would have sufficed.
@wis75 Also, I do not know what kind of job you have, but in some positions, using offensive language can get one written up, required to attend training on how to interact with people without using such language (see MOD’s post above) or even fired.
I sincerely hope that you do not have to interact with families who might have a developmentally delayed child or any other disability that you’re likely to mock with your unwillingness to be “PC”.
Word to the wise (or in this case to the clueless super intelligent), facts and intelligence do not trump kindness and understanding of social norms. The intelligent are not more worthy than those with disabilities, and there is a place in this world for all kinds of people. It’s a shame you do not realize that.
I don’t mean to pile on, but I find the r-term offensive as well. I have a strange connection to it - I heard it used in a terribly mean and unfair way referring to my current boyfriend (though we weren’t dating at the time.) I got outrageously upset at the people using it - and it was the first time I think I realized I had feelings for him.
Also, could we please avoid outing people, even if they have identified themselves in the past?
CC depends on both civil dialogue and the ability to be anonymous.
Until this thread I didn’t know that the word “retarded” is sort of banned. I rarely get a chance to use that word though. I recall that my middle school son once said that I should not use that word. He also said I should not use “black”. I didn’t pay much attention to him because he is a known sensitive nice kid.
I certainly hope people don’t judge against people by a word or two they used. Just like we don’t view giftedness as good at a thing or two but not as good at others. It seems “Special Ed” applies to both ends of the bell curve. Within 1-3 standard deviations should be viewed as normal.
Going back to the original discussion,
Sports might not be a problem. Daughter had 5 years horse riding and then 2 years rock climbing. Both were independent from schools. The former was at a ranch and the latter was organized by a local climbing gym. Each had a team with her age range, and there has been plenty of sporty-socials.
Tough luck folks. Medically speaking the facts remain the same. Schools et al may use change language because the language hurts the parents but the children still have the same functioning abilities and capacity regardless of labels. Totally different than social labels used in other circumstances. Calling children “special” or exceptional" does not change the needs. Terms used professionally are not the same as the general public’s overlay on them.
I found that most children, especially teens, do not have enough “sensitivity” or empathy" regarding anyone who is different or performs well academically. Perhaps a self defense mechanism to keep their self esteem? We need outspoken, blunt people to counteract the majority’s already superior being on the inside actions. I’ll bet most of you are mainstream and rejected kids when you were in HS, hurting many of them without realizing it. Those students came in all sorts of abilities but were ignored by many who were also dealing with growing up.
College students are more mature than HS students. Being in a college environment is vastly different than the one in any HS. So what if a 14 year old takes honors physics? The academics are the most important part of college for some- not the social life as it appears to be for many.
Somebody has to be a thorn in your sides. Being in the majority, a member of the pack works for most. But what about those who do not fit in? Placing judgements on people because they have better attire or other superficial appearances?
I’m sure conversations with you teens have included hurts and rejections of others for reasons that are not sensitive or empathetic. How many of you ignore those on the periphery of your work and other circles?
End of rant. Kudos to those who “get” giftedness.