<p>But the 8 in PA-C’s list are not the ones who accepted a college offer and are taking a gap year, are they? It looks like these are the ones who either didn’t participate in this year’s process or didn’t take any offer and maybe are planning on reapplying next year?</p>
<p>As for the numbers, we need Lvillgrad for a through analysis, but it seems to me that unlike Andover, which has had a worse year (worse than its 5 year average anyway) in placing graduates into top colleges, Exeter had a better performace at least in the Ivies placement than its 3 year average.</p>
<p>I know that some of the Choate kids who were listed as “interim year” are playing junior hockey then using that experience to get into a reach college.</p>
<p>If the list of colleges attended are deemed representation of Exeter’s success or your child’s success from Exeter, I would have to disagree. After sending one child to Exeter, and not delivering same to Ivy, Mom and I truly believe our child’s success is coming – and from Exeter. The Harkness method (table teaching at Exeter and Lawrenceville) is an amazing tool for dialogue and introspection of concepts, something which is too often not allowed nor permitted in other educational forums. This Harkness process beautifully delivers a student to LAC’s where the smaller classes more often continue this gem of an educational method. From Harkness, my child’s approach to college was extremely mature. And, like so many of her Exonian peers, my child will use that cognitive process in study and/or work. Exeter leap-frogged a young child into a strong-minded intellectual who has subsequently received national and other awards over the past several years. Many doors have opened for our child because of Exeter – and those doors are much more important in the long run that admission to the great-named colleges on the list which triggered this thread. Tome, the list represents a few logical conclusions: (a) the children entering Exeter are bright students; (b) graduating Exonians – who were already brighter than average – receive a great education; (c) Exonians make good students in college and are welcomed by elite academic institutions; and (d) personal intangibles of some individuals may heighten the numbers. But, from my experience – the true barometer of the school is not the entrance to the schools, but how the Exeter education is implemented by these students in their life and how the same is important to their vocation or other endeavors for years or decades after graduation.</p>
<p>PA-C: Most of the scholarships are merit based; in many cases, students don’t need to apply for them. They’re simply selected by the faculty. E.g., there are scholarships for kids going to specific colleges, for kids pursuing the arts in college, for kids who excelled in both academics and athletics; etc.</p>
<p>Benley: No, at least some of the kids listed as “year off” (or “alternative year after PEA” as the paper puts it) are kids who got into college and deferred. So I guess the list as published does under-report the number of people going to specific schools.</p>
<p>Father of the Boarder: Thank you for your comment. I agree completely. I wish more parents and students were able to move beyond the obsession with the Ivies and with the <em>name</em> of the college kids get into. A high-quality high school education will benefit you in a wide variety of ways and “keep on giving” for the rest of your life, no matter what college you get or don’t get into.</p>
<p>Great perspectives, Father of the Boarder and PEAteacher!
I agree completely, but so is a high-quality college education. Obviously not everyone can and should go to an Ivy, just like not everyone can and should go to Exeter, but I feel it’s a little extreme to say “no matter what college you get or don’t get into”. After all, by <em>name</em> and its selectivity Exeter already qualifies itself as an “Ivy”. :)</p>
<p>PEAteacher - are you sure? Why wouldn’t Exeter include deferred student admit stats? They got into the college, they accepted the college offer, they made a deposit, they asked to defer for one year to pursue another interest. That’s a complete, clean admit and a reportable matric stat. I’m guessing thatbtiny handful kids that Exeter is reporting as year-off, were either not admitted or chose not to accept any of the college offers they received.</p>
<p>Benley, my point is that you benefit from going to Exeter no matter what college you go to. This isn’t to say that you don’t benefit from going to a great college.</p>
<p>rebelangel: yes, I’m sure. I know these kids Keep in mind that what PA-C transcribed is what shows up in the student paper. It’s not an official list that the school or College Counseling office puts out. In fact, some of the seniors are not on this list at all (I assume it’s up to them to decide whether they want to be included). The official list will be on the website eventually.</p>
<p>I’m reminded of something I read 1-2 years ago which nicely epitomized a theme that ran through many boarding school alumni/ae interviews. I’m paraphrasing a bit here because I’ve forgotten some of the specifics, but it was from a middle-aged gentleman who’d already experienced a great deal of success in life. It went something like this: “Yes, I graduated from Yale and Harvard Business School - but I got my education at Exeter.”</p>
<p>Seeing that same sentiment expressed repeatedly by alumni/ae of the top boarding schools influenced my wife and I a great deal in our decision to consider boarding school for our son. At least for us, that is far, far more important than any matriculation statistics.</p>
<p>PEAteacher and Mainer95, as a current BS parent I can never get tired of hearing people talking about the value of a top BS education, and I believe a superb high school education IS more important than getting into an Ivy. While I don’t want to sound ungrateful, I do think that helping its students to get into a properly selective college that’s also a good fit should be an important goal of a prep school like Exeter on top of delivering the superb education. I think Exter is doing great but I don’t appreciate the attitude from a teacher when he says Exeter is great anyway “no matter what college you get or don’t get into”. Just my thoughts, and I hope I am not offending you.</p>
<p>But PEAteacher did not say “Exeter is great anyway.” He said “A high-quality high school education will benefit you in a wide variety of ways and “keep on giving” for the rest of your life” - with no specific reference to Exeter at all.</p>
<p>I wonder how many are going to do a pg year elsewhere. I know of a boy who graduated Deerfield, and then did a pg year at another top school because he wanted to be noticed for athletics. He was so surprised at Deerfield to see how many of the starting varsity players were pg students.<br>
zp</p>
<p>A quick comparison with Andover seems to bring out one similarity this year: At both places some students have accepted admission at schools which hitherto almost never featured. Another similarity is that ivy+SM admissions is down by more than ten percent from the last three-year average. Yet a third: at both places more grads have gone to smaller liberal arts colleges such as Williams and Amherst this year as well as to state schools such as SUNY and UCalifornia.</p>
<p>One hypothesis (which needs first-hand data to verify) is that a large number of “solid” upper average students who applied to the top ten were ultimately denied. They were reluctantly forced to accept their “second list”. Also many of the top colleges preferred to take athletes and other such “hooked” candidates leaving those with no legacy or athletics or URM hooks to the other colleges. This is drawing from what has happened at Andover for which I have first-hand data. I welcome detailed analysis of this from anyone who has good information.</p>
<p>Looking at the numbers the way this cookie crumbles is:</p>
<p>Exeter (past 3 yr average of students going to top 10): 91
number of matriculations at top ten in 2010: 80.
Percentage decline: (91-80)/91 or about 10 percent.</p>
<p>I believe you have the numbers for Andover where I believe the decline is about 20 percent from 2009: to 88 in 2010 from 113 in 2009. Of course the Andover numbers are complicated by a worrisome decline in graduations. The attrition rate in this elite school is comparable to an inner city high school. However if we assume that the more capable student is somehow coping with the stress and who remains is the hardy survivor than it is reasonable to conclude that Andover probably could not have improved its performance even if everyone had stayed.</p>
<p>To be fair to Andover, I believe that at least some of their “decline in graduations” is due to them enforcing “substance use” prohibitions more aggressively. I congratulate them on doing that. We believe that it benefits everyone in a boarding school for the school to work hard at maintaining a “clean” environment. We hope that more schools will follow Andover’s example on this too.</p>
<p>qunatman, you probably can’t do it this way: (91-80)/91. You have to take into consideration the size of the graduating class. Your point about the attrition is valid but is another issue. Do you have their attrition rate? I think if you have a copy of the year book, you can at least count how many 4 year students are still there? I am more curious about students who voluntarily chose to leave. What could be the most common reasons - if statistically significant?</p>
<p>Benley,
Exeter has posted consolidated numbers for the 3 years ending in 2009 on its website. Please add them and divide by 3 to get the average size of the graduating class in those 3 years.</p>
<p>As I said in my earlier post, the decline in top ten admissions is probably not caused by attrition or greater rates of attrition. The students who left or were asked to leave most likely were not doing as well academically as those who managed to stay. Thus compensating for them will not materially improve the statistic: it will probably weaken the case that going to these elite institutions strengthens the students applying to the top ten.</p>
<p>I am growing increasingly cynical about the marketing hype that schools such as Andover are putting out about themselves. It seems to me that if you should include the risk that your child could be forced to leave midway through high school because his room-mate smuggled beer into the dorm and the increasingly low rates of admission especially if you consider that many of those who do make it to the top ten came up with hooks such as legacy, URM and athletics (schools such as Andover carefully include such people when they “sculpt” or “round-out” their classes).</p>
<p>I have no comments about the morality or not of substance abuse. The students in the dorms are as good or as bad as all other teens in schools everywhere. However in the dorm they are at the mercy of counselors and petty administrators who write rules that are bound to be broken and indeed are broken by day students in the same school. One would expect a more sophisticated approach towards an issue which is epidemic in the population. Indeed when you read the grand statements put out on their websites about the hundreds of years these schools have educated young people of all kinds.</p>
<p>You are however welcome to come up with the data that you seek and interpret it as I am trying to do. I have no stake in these schools. My son graduated this year and is safely in the top ten. What I am trying to do is come up with an analysis which parents can use before they commit their children to one of these places.</p>
Keep in mind that what PA-C transcribed is what shows up in the student paper. It’s not an official list that the school or College Counseling office puts out. In fact, some of the seniors are not on this list at all (I assume it’s up to them to decide whether they want to be included). The official list will be on the website eventually.</p>