<p>3.7 and 3.69 are the difference between A- and B+. The cut-off has to fall somewhere and that’s where it falls.</p>
<p>What? 3.7 to 3.69 is the difference between:
1.) 40 A-'s and
2.) 39 A-'s and one B+. </p>
<p>There is no magical cutoff.</p>
<p>Yes, one class can mean the difference between an A- and a B+ GPA, just as one question on a test can mean the difference between an A- and a B+ in a class. A 3.7 is an A- and a 3.69 is a B+ at virtually all colleges and universities that use a four point grading system. Most colleges and universities do not round up.</p>
<p>By cut-off I was obviously referring to the point where an A- becomes a B+. It’s not “magical” but it is a real cut-off.</p>
<p>Yeah, keep in mind that my school doesn’t use A+'s (which I know I would have gotten in my first year of school in which I got high 90’s in almost all of my classes) and is on the 4.0 scale.</p>
<p>Anyways, thanks for the input guys. I think I’m just gonna go to war with what I have and apply to as many t14’s as I can, and UF at the very least. I also just started my LSAT prep course and have yet to take a diagnostic, but I’ll try to post that some time within the next few weeks. Maybe then you guys can give me some input on score projections or something.</p>
<p>And Blossom - I looked very heavily into UF’s MBA program, but they strongly suggest at least two years worth of work experience before getting in. And at this point, I don’t have the money or time to pursue a GMAT course. I already took the GRE’s back in the summer so I can have my choice of grad programs (I’m applying to several.)</p>
<p>Oh, and I have no intention of working in advertising unless I have to. I interned in the summer and wasn’t fascinated by it.</p>
<p>Why do they need to round at all?! LSDAS goes out to three decimal points. This silly piece of logic implies that a 3.69 might as well be a 3.3, which is simply absurd.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com/graphs.php?cycle=5&school_code=0007[/url]”>http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com/graphs.php?cycle=5&school_code=0007</a></p>
<p>Ladistar, it is not an accident that the more rigorous programs have more rigorous entrance requirements. Don’t go into a one year business program which doesn’t require work experience thinking you will get the same experience (or that it will be as valuable) as a two year program (double the course work) which requires work experience. To pay tuition for a year’s worth of classes, plus the opportunity cost of not earning a full time salary, to avoid having to pay for a GMAT prep course sounds like a very bad financial strategy to me. Especially since you can get a GMAT review book on Amazon for $50.</p>
<p>You don’t need a class in Valuation or Financial Engineering to do the math; I just don’t think that a one year masters will make you more marketable post your JD, and I think the costs are high relative to its value. If you were my kid I’d be strongly suggesting that you invest the time you’re spending in LSAT prep into finding a job for when you graduate.</p>
<p>Just my opinion… you sound like the hundreds of people I interview every year who tell me why they don’t want to be lawyers (this is after graduating law school and passing the bar) but also don’t want to work in the field they trained for as undergrads (why major in advertising if you don’t like the work???). Save yourself some tuition and go get a job, any job, which will definitely help you sort out what path you want to take for the future.</p>
<p>Honestly, I went into advertising because at the time it seemed interesting to me. I always had the intention of attending law school and at the time I didn’t think that my major had any real influence on admissions - just so as long as I did well is all that mattered. Plus, it seemed easy and attainable so as long as I put in the effort. At the time, it was a win-win situation. To add to that, I didn’t have the attention back then of attending a t14 school, just a school in-state. However I’ve learned over time that the biglaw jobs in NY are only attainbable coming out of t14’s and that’s why my goals have changed.</p>
<p>Now if I was intending for a straight-out-of-undergrad career, I would have went with Accounting, MIS or Finance. But I was always interested in how consumers made the choices they did and how people were able to persuade others to buy their products, and so that’s why the major appealed to me. And since my goal was just to ascertain a high GPA for law school, that was my only criterion at the time.</p>
<p>But once you get into the program (which is extremely competitive at FSU, btw) you start to learn about the industry and what it’s like and what lies in store for entry-level grads going into the industry. That’s when I really started my disdain for the business. Traditional advertising is slowly dying out and is giving way to integrated marketing. The entry-level pay sucks for graduates relative to what you pay for undergrad tuition. And to top it all off, it’s one of the most highly-stressful jobs in private sector. Most importantly though, it’s the kind of job I know I’d get bored with after two years. And why even make it through two years with the high probability of turnover, long hours, and sucky entry-level pay?</p>
<p>Hindsight is 20/20, and I might have perhaps enjoyed going into poli sci or history for undergrad. Hell, maybe I should have just stuck with econ as a major (since I already completed a minor in it). But I’m now only 9 credits away from graduation, and considering the fast track I’m on, it might make more marketable to graduate early and earn an extra degree or get some work experience rather than be like everybody else and spend the traditional 4 years in undergrad and go straight to law school. </p>
<p>Blossom, I’ll definitely take your advice into account, but the money I spent on a GRE prep course and the test itself is a sunk cost at this point, and I’d be kidding myself if I didn’t apply to a grad program rather than completely dismiss it and take a GMAT. I’ll apply to several grad programs just to be safe, but the MSM is still on my radar as far as I’m concerned.</p>
<p>Also, I looked at the curriculum for the MSM program online, and its almost identical to the first year of the traditional UF MBA. Only difference is that you spend an extra year taking a few more core classes and electives. So perhaps its not as insignificant as you might think.</p>
<p>
To whom? Out-of-undergrad employers? (Maybe.) Law schools? (Definitely no.) Post-law-school employers? (I doubt it.)</p>
<p>
… this is an argument AGAINST using it to make your decision. That’s what “sunk cost” means.</p>
<p>
But the value of an MBA isn’t the curriculum, it’s the branding and the networking.</p>
<p>Look, I may be being blunt, but I’m honestly trying to help. I just took a look at the website [FSU</a> Undergraduate Academic Program Guide](<a href=“http://www.academic-guide.fsu.edu/communication_advertising.html]FSU”>http://www.academic-guide.fsu.edu/communication_advertising.html)</p>
<p>There is no way you are getting into a t-14 school with that major and anything less than a 175+. Even then, I think you only have a chance at the schools need the bottom of the list. I didn’t realize this major was in the school of communications. That hurts–see comments in Montauk posted above by blossom. </p>
<p>[Making it easy:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>My suggestion–forget the MSM or any other grad degree. Spend another year at FSU and finish up an economics major if you can do so and raise your gpa. That is, do that if you really want a shot at a t-14 school and don’t get 175+ on the LSAT.</p>
<p>If I were you, I’d also get in contact with UF Law and ask how it would view your major and your planned MSM.</p>
<p>
I agree that advertising isn’t a good major, but I think this is too strong by a fair margin. Georgetown graphs:
<a href=“LSN%20seems%20down,%20will%20insert%20link%20into%20later%20post.”>I</a>*</p>
<p>You can see that even with a 3.1 GPA, a 170 is pretty much auto-admit territory. Advertising may be a bad major, but I don’t think it’s worth -0.5 GPA points. I think your earlier estimate of -0.2 might be about accurate. So what kind of LSAT score do you need for a 3.43 to get into Georgetown? Or a 3.33, to be really extreme?</p>
<p><a href=“Will%20check%20graphs%20when%20they%20come%20back%20up.”>I</a>*</p>
<p>LSN Graphs for Georgetown:
[Graphs:</a> | LawSchoolNumbers.com](<a href=“http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com/graphs.php?cycle=5&school_code=0007]Graphs:”>http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com/graphs.php?cycle=5&school_code=0007)</p>
<p>Near Guarantees:
3.33 GPA: 170
3.43 GPA: 170</p>
<p>Very good shot:
3.33 GPA: 169
3.43 GPA: 167</p>
<p>Maybe I am too strong. I don’t claim to be an insider. However, according to Georgetown Law’s admissions website :</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>So, truthfully, I’m not sure I am being too strong. </p>
<p>Remember that he only has 3 years of courses; he probably isn’t a URM; if my recollection of his old post is correct, he doesn’t have particularly stellar ECs (by his own estimation); and he has no work experience. Also remember that very few folks applying to top law schools have UG majors like advertising. In those circumstances, I don’t think having both a gpa and a LSAT at the median–assuming G’town’s numbers stay the same–is going to be good enough to cut it. </p>
<p>For ladistar’s sake–since I have a feeling he’s going to go ahead with his plans, no matter what–I hope I am wrong. </p>
<p>However, I still would suggest that he boost his chances by extending his UG career and getting an econ major rather than the MSM. And, if he could boost his gpa a bit, that would also help.</p>
<p>Again, if others think I’m being too harsh, they are certainly entitled to that opinion. But, please do believe I’m really trying to help.</p>
<p>Hm. A 171 is GULC’s 75th. The only way you can have a median of 170 and a 75th of 171 is by loading up heavily on students in that range. Might explain the LSN graphs.</p>
<p><a href=“http://leiterrankings.com/students/2007student_quality.shtml[/url]”>http://leiterrankings.com/students/2007student_quality.shtml</a></p>
<p>Obviously if I can go back in time, I would have chosen a non-vocational major - but you know what, it’s over. It’s in the past. I can’t change it, so I’m just going to rock the LSAT and see what happens.</p>
<p>From almost every source I’ve heard, 3.7 and 170+ puts me in contention for bottom t-14. No guarantees, but a shot. If I can do that, then I honestly feel like I have a shot. </p>
<p>And jonri - I know you’re trying to help, but did you ever stop to think that you might be putting a little too much stock into quoted opinions? You don’t know exactly how ad-com’s think for sure, so let’s not get all domsday-ish now. You’re making the ridiculous assertion that I need near perfect grades and a 175+ LSAT to get into a t14, when I know there are plenty of vocational majors that get into these schools with slightly worse numbers. I came here to ask for advice, and you’re becoming a borderline ■■■■■ with your negativity. If you don’t think I have a shot, then just flat-out say it. You might mean well, but you don’t need to write a huge essay on it each time. I get the point.</p>
<p>Well, jonri isn’t just being negative. He (she?) has a suggestion: why not skip the master’s, take the extra year, expand the econ minor to a major?</p>
<p>Well that’s definitely a possibility, but I just think it’s a little unfair to say that I have little to no chance due to my major alone. I mean if that kind of discrimination truly exists, this is the first place I’ve heard about it.</p>
<p>Also another thing: Doesn’t LSAC only calculate GPA for the first degree that you complete? I’m currently about to complete my degree this semester so if I were to, say, transfer to UF next year to take some extra econ credits that wouldn’t actually count towards GPA, right? Keep in mind that I really don’t want to stay at FSU for another year to hold off on graduation because I want to get out of here.</p>
<p>LSAC will calculate any grades received prior to the awarding of a bachelor’s. So if you graduate from FSU and go hang out at UF and take some courses, they won’t (I don’t think) count. But if you actually transfer, then they definitely would. A master’s would not.</p>
<p>Nobody, including jonri, has said that you have little no chance due to your major alone. He’s discussed a constellation of factors which he thinks harm you, and while I think he reaches a stronger conclusion than I would, I think he’s pretty clearly right at a qualitative level.</p>
<p>Alright, maybe I’m taking it the wrong way then. I certainly hope so.</p>
<p>Do you think I should call UF up and ask them how many of my credits would count towards THEIR econ and advertising degrees? Because if I hold of graduation, I’d essentially be double majoring.</p>
<p>I think you should go to see your pre-law advisor as they would have the following information:</p>
<p>The LSAT/GPA average for your school</p>
<p>Where graduates of FSU are admitted to law school (this should tell you if they are “feeding” students in to the T-14 or if only a relatively small handful of students are admitted from your school)</p>
<p>They will also have the LSAT/GPAs of students admitted from your school as well as the undergrad program. Your own school Pre-law program states:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>By the same token you should also research the T-14 , try to find the undergraduate institutions represented to see the # of students from FSU are admitted.</p>