After what happened to the American kid arrested in North Korea and with the accusations of racism Trump faces anything, I think politically it made sense to intervene. I’m just surprised he saw that too (or listened to whoever told him to)
I agree with you about Trump’s odd tweet. There is so much other news and Trump tweets so many things that are so beyond what is normal behavior for adults that no one really seemed to pay much attention. When the players gave their press conference, they did thank Trump along with some of the other people who intervened on their behalf. None of the other people who helped them tweeted publicly wondering if the players would thank them.
In the last few years I can think of so many people in public and private life who go out of their way to help other people. I have never heard any of them ask publicly “Do you think they will say thank you to me?” What kind of person does that after doing something kind or going out of their way to help another person? What kind of person does a good deed and then publicly says for all to hear “Do you think they will thank me for what I did for them”?
A narcissist does that.
I didn’t think Trump’s tweet was odd at all for…you know…Trump. I think he was saying “I never get any credit for doing something good” which is sort of what we would expect him to say. It really didn’t bother me, though, and I hope they write him a real thank you letter. I think he did the right thing in getting them home and then it can be dealt with on US soil.
I really think it was because Trump just happened to be in China, and that Trump being Trump just wanted to be part of a story. I don’t think he cares about UCLA basketball or college students in general, but it was an easy way for him to take credit for something that didn’t cost him anything, in dollars or politics.
I still expect Presidents to act like Presidents. Or just…you know…normal adults!
I agree with you that the basketball players should thank Trump and everyone else who helped them even if those other people didn’t publicly ask whether they’d be thanked. A real thank-you note is an excellent idea.
When President Trump does something “good” he should get credit for it. Likewise, when he doesn’t.
The shoplifting itself is serious. What is going on in the UCLA program that would lead any players to think that shoplifting from a store while on a team trip could ever be acceptable? And the fact that it wasn’t just one student acting out but a group makes me think there needs to be better leadership.
I saw a short clip of the players admitting guilt. I heard them say that it was a stupid thing to do, but I really wished that they had said it was a wrong thing to do.
I find that the reactions to this situation compared to the Otto Warmbier one very odd. Do Americans really think that having these young men serve time in a Chinese prison is reasonable for their offense? It is a very similar case of a young student doing something stupid, victim-less, and non-violent or harmful in any way, but now, we have opinions that they should have been left in China to possibly suffer the same consequences as Otto Warmbier?
Why the difference in attitudes? So the father of one of the young men is unlikable - should they suffer an unreasonable punishment for that?
I do think they should be disciplined, but certainly not imprisoned, and definitely not in a Chinese prison. Who here in this forum would be OK with their child being imprisoned for several months if they happened to commit the minor offense of shoplifting?
Oh please. Don’t blame this on the UCLA coaching staff. I’m very familiar with the head coach and I assure you he is not doing anything to condone this type of behavior. These are kids who get a lot of attention, hold press conferences as high school seniors to announce to the world where they will attend college, get any girl they want etc. Lifting some sunglasses from LV seemed like a risk worth taking. This is not on Alford or his assistant coaches.
I think they should have been treated like anyone else stealing a $500 pair of sunglasses in China. We don’t know if that’s 6 months in jail, or a $1000 fine, or a slap on the wrist. I’ve seen news editorials saying they should be punished by UCLA and given what the penalties would have been under California law. Why? They weren’t in California. Why not impose the shoplifting laws of Iowa or SC or France? Or, let’s impose the shoplifting laws of Hangzhou China, since that’s where the crime took place.
I don’t remember anyone saying Otto should have been imprisoned for 10 years for stealing a poster, just that there wasn’t much the US could do to help him in North Korea. There was something the US could do for a citizen arrested in China, and it did. The US tried to intervene in N Korea, but it was ineffective (and too late).
I’m glad Trump helped though I’m sure it was just a matter of him coincidentally being over there.
I shudder to think what would’ve happened if they had to face charges.
What they did was incredibly stupid and they should probably be expelled. I’m sure that won’t happen because they make a crapload of money for the university, but that opens an entire different discussion on college athletics.
That question is not relevant (since the offense occurred in a foreign country with foreign laws)… The question is, how do the Chinese authorities think these young men should be punished?
Reports are that they had ~$2k of stuff in their possession, and it just wasn’t one store. It’s not like they stole a piece of pizza bcos they had not eaten in several days.
An article that I read today mentioned that there was something in it for China also to settle this incident amicably. Which is the Chinese student population of UCLA. Here are some stats:
Chinese students could account for as much as 7.7% of the entire student body and as much as 49.0% of the international student body at UCLA.
Over the last five years the total Chinese population of students on campus has grown at an average rate of 21.5%.
UCLA is rated #9 out of about 800 colleges for providing a quality educational experience for Chinese students.
Whether China really took this under consideration is anybody’s guess, but it makes sense that they’d like to maintain a good relationship with UCLA.
Perhaps I am being unfair to the UCLA college students but my gut reaction is that there is a difference between stealing a sign on the street and shoplifting expensive sunglasses from an upscale store. The first one seems like something stupid that kids do and the second one doesn’t.
I know the coaches don’t condone this type of behavior, but I can’t imagine that before an international trip like this there isn’t a serious discussion explaining to the team that that not only do they represent their school but they represent their country. Kids make mistakes all the time, but intentionally shoplifting sunglasses isn’t the kind of mistake that I’d expect stupid college kids to make if it had been made clear to them in advance how magnified every action they took on this trip would be.
Maybe I am being too hard on them – I am very forgiving of kids doing stupid things. For some reason shoplifting expensive sunglasses while on a team trip in which you represent both your team and country seems worse than doing the same stupid thing when you are back on campus.
The freshmen haven’t made any money for UCLA. They may or may not be successful college players.
@MomofWildChild maybe they have not made money yet, but in general the basketball program is lucrative and it is probably taken into consideration. As I said, they should be expelled because they committed a crime while representing the school abroad , but it would be naive to think basketball potential is not playing a role, especially when the Ball kid has another sibling in high school.
I don’t know anything about the Chinese justice system, but in some countries, the system of justice is not one that we would want our citizens to be subjected to, regardless.
I’m glad they were able to get back to the U.S. Hopefully they will become better role models for their peers and fans.
OK, don’t shoot me for this comment. I actually have a kid who plays varsity basketball, but I didn’t know exactly why UCLA was in China in the first place. So I googled it. This is what I found:
“Pac-12 Global is an unprecedented effort to promote goodwill and showcase the Pac-12 and its member institutions around the world through student-athlete exchanges and sport. The initiative uses the shared passion of athletics to support the ambitious international strategies that many of our universities have embarked on to extend their reach into China and beyond.”
“many of our universities have embarked on to extend their reach into China and beyond.” This is priceless! Those kids certainly extended their reach into China and beyond - and put what they grasped into their pockets!
Sorry, but I just thought that was just too funny. What those kids did was not funny, but that statement definitely is.
I don’t understand exactly what these “ambitious international strategies” are and why they want to extend their reach into China and beyond? I’m sure it’s more about $$$$ than promoting goodwill, but I don’t get the concept. I’d like to know the scoop if anyone cares to fill me in.
Well, any time you travel overseas you subject yourself to the justice system of that country, just like they subject themselves to the US system if they come here. We don’t want people to come here and get to decide their own punishments when they break our laws.
I don’t think anyone travels to China or France or Mexico and expects NOT to be held accountable if they commit a crime. I don’t know of any country where shoplifting is legal. The US constitution and state laws are not going to protect you. You may have no right to a lawyer, no right to bail, no right to three meals a day, to a speedy trial. Stay home if you don’t agree to be bound by the laws.
I think every student traveling should have to watch Midnight Express before they go. Actions have consequences.
Not sure how stealing something that is valuable is a “victim-less” act.
http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/ce/cgvienna/eng/dbtyw/jdwt/crimelaw/t209043.htm has an English translation of PRC criminal law as of 1997.
However, it seems to be hard to find the definition of “relatively large”, “large”, and “extraordinarily large” as used here and in some other places. There does not seem to be mention of a penalty for stealing something that is not “relatively large” or some special category of item.
https://www.cecc.gov/resources/legal-provisions/criminal-law-of-the-peoples-republic-of-china has an English translation of PRC criminal law as of 2011 from a US source (hmmm, the PRC source seems to be several amendments out of date…).
Not too different, though some differences are presumably due to different translators. The “relatively large” use remains.