I live in China, and I would rather face the Chinese justice system (and jail time) than the US. I know or know of a few guys (local and foreign) who got caught in some crime (e.g. driving with above zero BAC, or being found with a short term companion in a hotel room). They got 15 days immediate detention, but not any harsh treatment. I think under normal circumstances this gang of thieves would get something like that (or a little more), then deportation.
Comparing China with North Korea is ridiculous, and comparing a poster theft (which may or may not have been a set up) with a deliberate stealing spree at expensive stores is also ridiculous.
I agree that kids can just be stupid sometimes. Locking them up for one stupid mistake is way over the top. One night in jail, maybe. Punishment by the school and parents, absolutely. Spending their own money on lawyers, yes. Shame when other find out, priceless. My son shoplifted several years ago. It’s so quick to judge when it’s not your kid.
Being American does not mean you have an automatic “get out of jail free” card worldwide. If you cost to break their laws, you should expect to pay their price. Just as foreign tourists here would expect local laws to apply to their actions here, or are we only expecting Americans to not be subject to local laws?
I think those kids should lose their scholarships and opportunity to play basketball for UCLA. They stupidly and selfishly embarrassed UCLA on the international stage. Let them fend for themselves in the real world. This was totally avoidable and they obviously have an enormous sense of entitlement because of their athletic abilities.
Since they admit they shoplifted, they should be kicked off the team and have their scholarships revoked. If they want to continue to pursue their academic endeavors at UCLA they can pay tuition and go to class.
This wasn’t a small thing. They were on a goodwill trip to a foreign country, and they treated their host country with absolute contempt.
Not even close to the Warmbler situation. There, we don’t really know that he stole anything, the video wasn’t clear and he was never able to make an un-coerced statement. These student-athlete-ambassadors casually shoplifted at multiple stores. Disgusting behavior anywhere, but the lack of respect to their university, their country, and their host is jaw-dropping.
I don’t know what team or university rules are, but I bet if it had been the women’s cross country team, or some other non-revenue sport, they’d be out in a heartbeat. Basketball stars get enough special treatment starting in middle school. No need to let them off easy here. Someone else will pick them up anyway.
Oh please. Don’t blame this on the UCLA coaching staff. I’m very familiar with the head coach and I assure you he is not doing anything to condone this type of behavior.
I would agree that Alford is not condoning the behavior, no coach would. That said his response to this will be interesting if for no reason other than to see if he has learned from his own past.
When coaching at Iowa he had a player get into trouble (worse trouble for sure) and went down the suspended indefinitely path. Alford spoke out in support of the athlete and ultimately allowed him back on the team. Fast forward and there was another arrest with similar circumstances which ultimately ended up with a prison term for the athlete, loss of a probable NBA career and ultimately led to Alford being run out of town (although the public story is he chose to leave for New Mexico, hardly a step up). Google Pierre Pierce Iowa for details.
The player at Iowa was talented but no where near the talent the entire Ball family has brought and will bring to Alford and UCLA. This will be a tough decision for Alford, does he learn from his past or is the all mighty need to win going to lead him down the same forgiveness path again?
Perhaps by American standards. But that is of no consequence, since they chose to enter a foreign country and go steal something (for the rush? Just bcos they could?) Clearly, they didn’t need sun glasses.
Prior to the trip, these guys were warned by UCLA security to behave and be smart. They chose to be neither, not only in one store, but three.
Actually, that IS part of American standards. (Trial by peers and all that…)
I was never really convinced that Warmbier did anything wrong–I think it just as likely that he was set up. This case is pretty different. I agree that they should be expelled.
Expelled or kicked off the team? Many college students commit petty crimes while in school and don’t get expelled. But their scholarships may be revoked.
Functionally the same thing for these athletes, probably, but still an important difference. Would you recommend expulsion because they committed the crimes on a university-paid trip? Same punishment if the debate team had done the same thing?
“For some reason shoplifting expensive sunglasses while on a team trip in which you represent both your team and country seems worse than doing the same stupid thing when you are back on campus.”
100% agree. You need to be on your best behavior when you are a high-profile guest in another country. This isn’t just a sports scandal; it’s an international incident. If I were an alum (or a California taxpayer), I’d want them off the team. Punishment beyond that, like expulsion, should be consistent with UCLA’s usual practice, which I do not know.
I’d vote for a one-year suspension from the team, honor the scholly, and allow them to transfer if they should choose. Of course, Ball’s dad has already said that he is one-and-done, so he might as well start training for NBA tryouts.
“They admitted today that they stole the items. (Local police found the stolen items in their possession.)”
Yup. They stole designer sunglasses in China. They will pay for this oh so dumb and naive act because of course now the whole world knows they’re shoplifters.
Plenty of 18 year olds who aren’t athletes shoplift. I don’t think you can blame this on entitlement. It’s stupidity. Possibly a little bit of entitlement, but plenty of athletes don’t break the law.
Weren’t these like $500 designer sunglasses? In many places in the U.S., this would not be considered a petty crime. I don’t like hearing something like this described as a “mistake.” The only mistake (maybe) was that they thought they could get away with it without consequences. How right they were remains to be seen.
I googled “average income in China” and it is something like $10,000 a year. So, those $500 sunglasses are worth about 5% of the average household income in China.
I think words matter. The words “stupid” and “mistake” in this context, to me, take away from the fact that what they did was intentional and it was wrong. “Stupid” and “mistake” to me sounds more like they just didn’t steal in a smart enough way to get away with it, or that it was stupid to steal in another country where the consequences could have been so much worse, etc. “stupid” sounds like a weighing factor…It was stupid because I had so much to lose.
These kids are in the spotlight. I think this was a missed opportunity to showcase for younger kids that stealing is wrong.