34 ACT with a low GPA (3.5 weighted). What should my sophomore son do?

Applying to College
21

If he can continue to get good grades - and you will need a strategy for this - , he will certainly have good options. The most selective schools, probably not, because those kids will have the grades and the scores. But the next tier, which are great schools, yes.

As a suggestion to your son… Have him talk to his teachers and tell them what he is struggling with. Tell them he has a goal to speak 3x/week and ask if they can support him by calling on him only when he raises his hand. (He could email this request but I think it’d be more effective if he could catch a teacher at the start of a day and simply ask "is this a good time to take a minute of your time?) I realize his teachers are not helpful but he can make one more effort, and sometimes, just sometimes, a kid who presents a problem as one they need help with, rather than an excuse, will get support. Sorry you are struggling with your district. We went through a much milder version of the same and it’s maddening.

22

Without making any judgments about the school, or the parental assessment of the school, it strikes me that there may likely be a much simpler short term solution, given that the OP indicates that a resolution will not be available for her son. Change schools. There are private options. There’s homeschool (as someone already mentioned).

@bh2021, I’m don’t think that it would be of any benefit to your son’s future college admissions plans to embark on path of trying to convince “Top school” or any school admission officers that for four years of high school, the teachers caused your son to have a lower GPA than what his potential is, and lower than other kids at his school. As another poster already mentioned, college admissions is about performance, not potential. And, by the way, your son has not performed poorly. :smile: His classroom performance, with Bs and Cs is average. His co-curricular performance is outstanding. And, there are many, many colleges that would admit him, and give him merit for his 34 ACT. Most importantly, he has another full year to demonstrate that his academics are on the rise, before beginning to apply.

No matter what you decide for the rest of his high school years, I promise you that he will have options, and good ones, for college. But, you may have to adjust your perception of what “top school” means. In spite of national lists that rank colleges, “top school” is in the eye of the beholder. First and foremost, it should always mean “fit for purpose”. Prestige is not a measurement for “fit for purpose”.

23

Some kids just do not do well in high school. Sometimes a private school can make the difference. I firmly believe that our kids did so much better in terms of education going to private schools. Some kids also do much better home schooled or in on-line schools or commuting to college. Those options take out the social interaction among their peers.

Traditional colleges do give weight to how a student interacts and performs among their peers and in their communities, which includes schools. If a kid is so strikingly brilliant that he accomplishes things that really knocks the socks off of the AOs, they’ll ignite the fact that he doesn’t do well in the sandbox and colors outside the lines. Otherwise, it counts against him. School and grades are not just a measure of academic performance but about how well a person can work with his environment and the people in it. Teachers, students, administrators all exist in college too, and when you join a college community, you need to know how to follow those rules and get those grades too. The selective universities in our country are trying to build a community, not just collect the best students.

I’m sure there are some, but i don’t know of any homeschooled or other such kids who did s lot of community college courses in high school get into the top schools. I was very active with a very academically driven home school group who did get have kids who got into major schools including Duke, Harvard and Pitt, but they did not do much dual enrollment with community colleges. Unless they are the only resource for a student in outlying areas, I get a sense that they are not given great weight in the college process. AP courses on line, or independently with very good AP exam results seem to be a favored way to go.

One does have to watch the rules about community college courses though When taken before graduating from high school, it’s not an issue.

Yes, the European schools, including St Andrews, Cambridge, Oxford and many lesser known universe may be good options for someone who doesn’t want to get involved in the typical student interactions of US residential colleges.

I knew one such young man some years ago who really had trouble in high school. He got accepted to a local college early. One can apply to college before finishing high school. OP’s son can apply this year instead of next. Schools like JHU, CMU, Stanford have been taking young kids for a long time now. A year early is no big deal. I have a number of friends, very close ones who were regarded child prodigies, went to college early. I also worked at a very well known gifted and talented program once upon the time. Not at all unusual to apply to college in the middle of high school. Heck, some were attending in middle school. So that’s a route that might be considered.

24

From what you describe, it sounds as if neuropsych testing would be an excellent idea for your son. It sounds as if he will do better in a college environment than in high school, but you really need to get him help for his socio-emotional issues, too. I don’t know what the academic level is at your kid’s high school, but at my kids’ good suburban public high school, the kids who come back from flagship state U’s say that their honors and AP high school classes were much harder than the classes at the flagship state U’s. Most community college classes are very, very easy. So I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that because your son gets A’s in community college classes and B’s and C’s in high school classes, that his high school GPA is irrelevant to the college application process.

Pulling him out of high school is NOT the answer! Getting him help for his problems is. You can get the school district to do the testing if you can’t afford to get it done privately.

25

@bh2021 I appreciate the long explanation. Just a quick comment - our very good public high school also does not allow quizzes or tests to come home. Kids are allowed to see them at school and are given a whole class period many times to ask questions and correct their tests. They can also go to their teachers before or after school to see their tests and ask questions. I don’t think that’s bad teaching. Teachers aren’t going to make up new tests every single year and can’t have old tests flying around for next year’s kids to see.

They don’t get a syllabus for the semester either. Just one for each month as they move through the school year - so in Sept they’ll get a calendar for what’s going on in Sept. And this is just for some classes, not all, so they certainly cannot plan super far ahead. Is it a normal thing for kids to get a syllabus in high school?

Also, I know you have different circumstances but teaching your S that the teachers are bad isn’t teaching him to take responsibility for his learning. When our kids have a teacher who isn’t working out, we tell the kids they need to figure it out. They aren’t victims. It happens sometimes that a teacher is in their last year before retirement or their style of teaching doesn’t match well with the student. That’s life. Now, in your S’s case, of course the teachers should be abiding by the IEP etc. That is inexcusable. But it’s hard to believe all of the teachers were bad. It’s more that the school didn’t fit your S and, unfortunately, that does happen sometimes.

I have a friend whose son left their public school and is officially homeschooling but taking all classes at the community college. It’s much better for him. They understand, though, that he can’t compete with the high school kids who excel in their high school courses and are very involved extracurricularly. Maybe someone has some advice as to how to show your S’s situation in the best possible light on his apps?

26

The “Mites” programs for which I worked all were associated with top universities, and a number of those kids did take college courses there early. Not at community colleges. Not a one over a long period of time.

However, most of these kids did not end up going to highly selective colleges, either. A lot of them finished early as commuters. Perhaps because of their younger ages, their parents did not want them goingvaway to school. Many finished college very early too. I know several who went to Pace Law school after college and graduated still too young to take the bar! One kid I know isn’t even 20 and hitting Broadway with her college degree completed. She went to Bowling Green for an early program. Could have had her PHD in two more years had she continued with it

There are a lot of non traditional paths out there. I also urge the OZp’s don to look at Soka college, Minerva University and Deep Springs. All three very much off the beaten path.

27

Just a couple of thoughts.

It’s not unusual for a school to not allow tests to come home. My D’s wonderful HS school had that policy too.

We pulled our D out of the public school system as well (for all of HS) because of issues with AP/honors offering being eliminate with budget cuts, elimination of arts/music, etc… The school turned itself around but as for your student, it would have been too late for our D for it to make any difference.

We absolutely LOVED her HS but I will caution you that even in the best schools, including in college, there are going to be horrible teachers. IMO, the best thing you can do if to stop putting the blame of your child’s lower grades on the teachers, and start focusing on how your son can succeed in his coursework no matter what the situation.

My D’s AP chem teacher her senior year was brand new. She knew absolutely zero, made mistakes daily in class that the students needed to point out to her, put material on tests that was chapters of ahead of what they were covering, etc… (She was demoted after that year and eventually left the school but again, too late for my D). My point is that D ended up in a study group of friends that taught themselves. They used a bunch of online resources, they got help from another science teacher, and elicited help from some college students. They in turn starting tutoring other students in the class. Was it irritating and unfair? Sure. Was it an amazing learning opportunity? Absolutely yes! Those skills have followed her into college where she’s already had a prof that spoke english so poorly no one understood him.

In the end, your child’s grades are his own. He needs to figure out a way to be successful regardless of the teacher/environment. It only gets harder in college (and I too would not use CC courses as a gauge for difficulty. My D’s DE classes were much, much easier than her AP courses, and a joke compared to what she’s taking now in college). There will be no hand holding in college. Students need to seek out their own resources, self advocate, and figure out how to do well. There is no blaming a prof for poor performance.

28

Agree with other posters that it is a very common practice to not permit tests to go home nowadays. My high schooler makes an appointment with the teacher to go over any tests she did not do well on and it works out fine. Also agree, there will always be bad teachers, bad coworkers, etc. everywhere you go in life.

29

Agree with above. Seems like both my kids when getting bad grades was because of a bad teacher. I would comment “glad you didn’t have too many of those.”

My kid had an 504 with the same limitations of not calling on him due to slow brain processing and some other things. A few teachers told us they just didn’t believe in such a thing. This is where I stepped in to make sure each teacher indivually was aware of the accommodations. It wasn’t like he never answered questions, he just needed some extra time to do so. We had many meetings with the school until they got it. It took some time… 504 I think is like a legal document and needs to be followed. There are also educational lawyers if needed. Through this process my son also learned to advocate for himself since if he didn’t then I would.

It’s funny since in college it doesn’t seem he needs the accommodations that he needed in high school. But they are there just incase.

30

Grades are not just a measure of knowledge or academic excellence. They also measure how well students can deal with the rules and people in their environments. Even with horrible teachers, some kids get A’s. It’s a measure of resilience, emotional intelligence, judgement, discipline.

Sadly, some of my kids, though academically strong in terms of knowledge, intelligent according to IQ, great personalities, honest , and all other wonderful things, were lacking in discipline, focus, consistency, detail, etc to get the grades commensurate with their abilities according to test scores. So, yes, it is a flag if a high scoring kid doesn’t have good grades and it is a reflection on that kid. Now, if he had some really great activity, accomplishment that is a hook for the colleges to make up for that, it’s s different story. There are some truly gifted, talented, genius kids whose accomplishments transcend grades at school but those are rare. It’s got to be danged amazing to knock the socks of Harvard’s AO.

31

You mentioned your son has tested to where he could depart high school. Perhaps he could do that an enroll in a local university while living at home. I have a friend whose son has a chronic illness that caused him to miss a lot of high school. They eventually decided a college schedule worked better with his treatments and he left high school and took classes at Old Dominion University in the local area. He completed his degree there and went on the get a masters degree at MIT and is working on a doctorate at UMass. Sometimes a non-traditional approach is best for your kid. Nothing says he has to stay in high school, especially if he is finding college coursework to be more challenging and he’s doing well in those courses. Maybe he leaves high school and does two years at CC, gets a 4.0 and transfers to a great state school to finish undergrad and goes to a top school for post grad work. He’s sounds like the type of kid who will be a strong academic. This same friend of mine had her younger daughter do online high school, one that caters to teens that are Olympic athletes, actors, etc. she did that because she also has the same chronic (genetic) illness as her brother and was an accomplished pilot and appreciated the flexibility online school provided. She flew to Colorado for the in person online school’s graduation too. She’s now at a state flagship, highly ranked engineering university. You may need to think outside the box a bit, since your son may need that approach.

32

@vamominvabeach I think the OP has yet to really understand what’s going on with his S. Community college classes are many times easier, not harder, than a rigorous high school class. Just because he’s doing well at CC doesn’t mean he’s gifted. I agree, though, that if going back to the high school isn’t a good option, then the family should figure out a homeschooling situation that works.

33
  1. Colleges care immensely about the trajectory of his grades across his HS career. Junior year is especially important. Far better to have a 3.4 GPA for Freshman-Sophomore years and a 4.0 GPA for Junior year than vice-versa.
  2. Despite #1, assuming your student is "unhooked" i.e. is not either
  3. an under-represented minority,
  4. a legacy
  5. a recruited athlete or possessor of some other special talent which puts him in the top 1/10th of 1% of talented (musicians)(writers)(young scientists)(performing artists)(student leaders/activists) nationwide...

… then your son has next to no chance of being admitted to a top 20 university. Unfortunately, they care far more about grades and class rank than they do standardized test scores.

Yes, I know the above sounds upside-down or even perverse. But one of the goals for adcoms at elite universities today is to “level the playing field” by giving underprivileged kids and minorities a leg up on middle- and upper-middle class kids with far higher SAT / ACT scores.

So you will see that UC San Diego, for instance, lists among its top 20 contributing high schools - i.e. schools that send >20 students to UCSD each year - both:

  • Silicon Valley standout high schools where the average SAT score for a UCSD student from that school is 1450 or higher

and

  • schools in low income neighborhoods where the average SAT score for a UCSD student is <1100. The top "feeder" school with the lowest score was a San Diego "magnet" school whose average SAT score for the students it sent to UCSD was - get this - 894.

Yes, 894!

And the above school cohorts, those with 99th percentile SATs and those where kids are scoring around or even substantially below 1000, have exactly the same GPA’s!

The adcoms are engaged in social engineering: imposing a de facto CAP on the # of students admitted from the super high-achieving high schools, and a de facto FLOOR beneath the # of students admitted from the vastly underperforming high schools.

There is nothing whatsoever you can do to affect this practice.

If your child applies to Top 20-25 or other elite schools with a large number of B’s and C’s, and without one of the “hooks” described above, he or she will not be admitted.

You’re best off applying to a broad set of public flagship schools in the Midwest and the Southwest and seeking to get into their Honors programs.

Many of these will gladly take your child and provide generous merit aid based on his test scores.

Good luck!

34

Being brilliant does not always translate into being a good student. The kids getting into top US schools are exceptional students + (the amazing ECs), unless they have a hook. And his cc grades won’t replace his HS grades for his GPA. But, he doesn’t need to go to a top school to do well. Students at any school can come out on top and shine, get Fulbrights, you name it. We have one at a good college (not top!) and get news all the time about the amazing things some of these students are doing.

Given that your S is not a fit with his HS, it sounds appropriate to either homeschool him or, if he has enough credits to graduate HS, he could do that and start at your state college. If he is brilliant and a good test taker, he may become a NMF and have more options for merit. Our S has a friend who had to grow up very fast due to a family situation, so he graduated a year early and got great merit aid at Oklahoma or Oklahoma State (can’t recall).

But, I would try to figure out why he gets Bs and Cs before sending him to college. It can’t be just the lack of participation that pulls his grades down to Bs/Cs. You want to fix the problem so that he can do well in the next stage of his life. I say this as a parent of a child who wasn’t performing to what we knew were his abilities before college, and the situation just got worse in college. (Also a bright kid -what I call average gifted - also a 34 ACT).

35

@havenoidea I agree with you completely about the soul searching part of why his grades aren’t where they should be, but most of them did go down a letter grade due to participation (for example, in advanced geometry, he ended the semester with a 78.9, which would have been above an 80 if the teacher hadn’t given him a C in participation :frowning: Unfortunately his school doesn’t do +/- grades, and all of his Cs but one would have been C+ in a +/- system (or a B if he hadn’t been downgraded for participation…frustrating—)

That said,

You are absolutely correct that my son needs to do some soul searching, and basically we’ve concluded that he needs to work on talking in class, meeting with his teachers one on one to discuss issues as they arise, and he needs to improve his attendance record as well (he missed a lot of school due to some illnesses last year, which didn’t hurt his college grades but his high school teachers didn’t seem to have much compassion). Either way, communication is important to success in all parts of life, and my son definitely needs to work on it with his teachers.

Overall, I feel things are getting better, and his counselor has been very supportive of my son’s various academic interests, so hopefully if he can pull it together junior and senior year (with a powerful personal statement explaining his growth and journey throughout high school), he may still be a candidate for top schools.

I agree too there’s more to life than going to a top school, it’s actually more important to find the school that’s the right fit. We’ll see how it goes over the next couple of years, but my gut says he hasn’t closed any doors yet…if anything, all of these problems he’s had over the last two years might make the next two years even stronger :slight_smile:

I wish you all the best with your children and their journey—

36

@homerdog I wish my son’s high school would give him a calendar month to month of the assignments and exams. Right now he gets the information week to week (or less). With a month’s notice, the student can do some time management and planning…

I tell my son all the time there’s always a silver lining on every gray cloud, and no matter what happens, he’s learning a lot through this experience. There are definitely worse schools in the area, it’s not all bad, it’s disappointing the teacher morale is so low, but the district is taking steps in the right direction.

Reading all of these posts has given me confidence that it will work out for him, somehow, someway. I really like the post about applying to college early, I think I’m going to have my son send out a few applications this fall, especially to California schools who understand what passing the CHSPE entails. At the very minimum, it will give him some practice if he decides to stay in high school as a senior and applies again…

37

@bh2021 You might want to contact the Institute for Educational Advancement in Pasadena. It is an advocacy organization that offers various kinds of support for gifted students, including weekend, evening, and summer programs. Their website also provides useful information for gifted students and their families.