34 ACT with a low GPA (3.5 weighted). What should my sophomore son do?

I was just hoping to get some advice for my son who has just completed his sophomore year of high school.

My sophomore son took the June 8th ACT, and got a 34, with only a few days of studying (he’s always been a good test taker), but his grades are not good. It’s a long explanation, and a lot of it is politics at his school (the teachers there are bad and my son has severe social anxiety, so pretty much everyone picks on him, including even a lot of the teachers because he won’t speak in class). I’ve tried to talk to the school, but at this point it’s just easier to get through it.

However — my son has taken 6 concurrent enrollment classes at Santa Monica College over the course of the last year, and he has gotten an A in every class.

(So sophomore year of high school — 3 Academic Cs and the rest all Bs, then 6 As in every college class).

The college classes:

  • Hist 2 (western civ)
  • Hist 12 (Us History)
  • CS 3 (intro computer science)
  • CS 50 (C programming)
  • Astron 2 (Planets)
  • Nutr 1 (Introduction to Nutrition)

Im getting him some help for his social anxiety, but my question is —

Does my son have any chance of going to a top school, or is he going to have to do another year of cc and be a transfer one day?

My other question — since he took 6 college classes, the history classes both physically at SMC (he’s actually taking a 7th class there this summer, Precalculus), will that override his high school GPA when the time comes for him to apply? (Especially if he ends up with 20+ Santa Monica College classes under his belt?)

Thanks for your feedback :slight_smile:

Why are the two choices 1) a top college OR 2) go to community college and transfer? Why not look at some of the many, many good but not “top” colleges?

My son is truly brilliant, and I don’t throw that word around lightly. He was explaining detailed human anatomy when he was 8 years old and contemplating how gravtity functions at age 13 (I didn’t even know scientists don’t entirely understand how gravtity functions until my son was writing theories about it).

I did think of another option for him — U.K. schools. Oxford only cares about test scores, they don’t understand the American GPA system and feel its too arbitrary and unpredictable of student success at the college level (which I agree anyway), so my son might end up going to a U.K school—given their emphasis on big final exams and single in depth papers, might actually be a better fit for him too.

Have you looked at resources for gifted students?
https://www.giftedstudy.org/tests.asp

If he continues with college courses, how many credits might he have? Might be able to start grad studies as a junior at major US research university if all his gen ed courses will be completed in high school.

PS I would visit or inquire at UCLA or Harvey Mudd admissions about how he might fit in their applicant pool.

He should work hard junior year to get his grades up and craft a list that matches his stats.

My D’s close friend had very high test score and the same GPA as your son. He overshot on his college list and was only accepted to the safety his GC made him add. He was horribly disappointed and was going to transfer. He ended up in a non flagship honors college and had a fabulous first year and loved it. He has a full ride there, is getting tons of opportunities (big fish small pond), and decided not to transfer.

Any university that had PhD level classes is going to be able to mentally challenge your son. It doesn’t need to be a T20.

Why are his grades so poor in his high school courses? Every teacher is bad? Why is the social anxiety at Bay in the college courses?

I agree with the other poster, there are alot of colleges between community college and top colleges. Look at those.

If his high school situation can’t be improved (if ALL the teachers are truly “bad”) - have you considered homeschooling for the last two years? Your S could take all of his classes at the community college where he seems to be excelling. You would lose the advantage of having a GC to help with the college application process and but since you don’t like his HS and seem proactive - perhaps no great loss.

@Hippobirdy Thank you very much for the suggestion of Harvey Mudd or UCLA. Those are great suggestions. And since he will accumulate 60+ college credits by the time he graduates from high school, he may be a stronger transfer candidate anyway, or they might consider him as a freshman while weighing his college GPA more heavily since he’ll have so many classes.

From what I’ve learned so far, college admissions officers understand that college is very different from high school, and while they look for success in high school as a measure of a student’s ability to find success at their school, they also know that all students don’t fit into the same mold, and high school in particular can be a very difficult time for some students (peer pressure, etc), hence the ‘holistic’ approach to the admissions process :slight_smile:

I’ll set up appointments at both of those schools and discuss difffernt paths…Since my son passed the CHSPE, he also has the option of just leaving high school now and going to SMC full time in the fall, essentially skipping his junior and senior year of high school, and while he really wanted the ‘freshman experience’ at his four year university, perhaps we can’t have everything in life :slight_smile:

I wonder if he has attended a day canp? Volunteered with kids or done community service? Lots of regular or special needs kids would benefit from him sharing his time and talents.

If he went to Oxford then he’d have to start at the beginning anyway. No skipping courses. But they’d quite like a student who has already covered some college level material. He’d still need to have some AP tests in relevant subjects (with 5s), preferably completed before applying (else his offer would be conditional). And most importantly he’d need to have a particular subject chosen, with evidence of specialization towards that. For example, participation in Olympiads (IMO etc) is highly regarded. The process is also very different, including the application format, the entrance test and most of all the academic interview (which you should do in person if at all possible), and starts much earlier (you apply by Oct 15th).

Maybe I am misreading here but did you look into getting 504 or something for his social anxiety and why is this not the problem in college? I would get him evaluated for social anxiety and test his iq also. Many smart kids think at a very high level and as I call “think differently” that grades don’t match. But if he’s really iq superior he might just be in the wrong learning environment.

We know 1 kid that was like your son. He left high school as a rising sophomore and studied in Germany at an international school all in German and he like learned German a few months before. Instead of coming back and graduating with his class he went to China to study with Americans there. He is starting University of Chicago this year.

I’m completely confused. Honestly, many comm college classes are way easier than the AP classes given at our school. This student will be competing with kids from traditional high schools who have very high GPAs in IB or AP. I don’t think that colleges will see that he did “better” in college level courses and accept him before a high school student with a rigorous schedule and high grades. And just because a student got a 34 ACT, that doesn’t make him brilliant. No offense. The transcript is the most important part of any app.

The social anxiety piece makes me wonder about a 504, too, neuropsych educational testing. And what can he do to have broader life experiences in community, clubs, service, theater, art, music , sports - to develop confidence and executive functioning outside of academic setting.

Right. That’s the other part. For top schools he will need ECs that show his interests and how he spends his time outside school.

She never stated that his 34 made him brilliant. (otherwise my kid would be brilliant also… Well… He’s smart… But common sense deficient ?).

It was the way he is thinking at a young age. I personally don’t think that makes him brilliant either but maybe the OP should have him tested for a gifted school that would challenge him. In Chicago there are summer schools for gifted kids like part of Northwestern University. My kid did a year of stats in 3 weeks with 12 other kids and thought that was the right pace and fun. Lol…

OP- be careful with colleges that would consider your son a transfer. There is usually way less in terms of scholarship money for transfers and it’s often more competitive for acceptance.

@knowstuff we are in Chicago as well and I went to NU. Both of our kids tested into those gifted programs at NU but I honestly don’t consider either of them gifted, just bright and hard working students. The way I read the opening question made me think that the OP is now asking these questions because of the ACT score his S just received. Now he thinks he can shoot for elite schools. If the student has been having problems in a traditional high school and the only response was to move to CC classes, I feel like they’ve left so many options on the table. Posters above suggest that the student be tested for an IEP. Sounds like the OP knew early on that his S might learn differently than other kids and I’m surprised he didn’t have that investigated way before high school. Of course they can try to find summer type classes that appeal to his S but that’s not going to solve the problem as to what approach to use for college admissions.

@homerdog. Agree with everything you said. Yes the NU programs helped challenge the kids. Yes there are many different options and @momofsenior1 made a very good point.

She said she is talking to different schools to get different opinions and that is great also not everybody realizes a need for testing early on.

@homerdog To be accepted to the CTD camps, a kid needs to demonstrate giftedness. However, that just means that they are in the top 5% of the population, and that probably describes about half the kids who apply to any of the more selective colleges. Based on the other descriptions of your kids, it is fairly clear that they both are gifted.

Since gifted kids tend to hang out with other gifted kids, it is likely that many of the kids with which you have interacted are gifted, so that your standards, are, shall we say, “skewed”…

However, there are many gifted kids who are underachievers. Since acceptance to colleges is based more on achievements than on potential, and for good reason, just demonstrating that a kid is gifted will not get that kid into a college. Otherwise, being a Davidson Young Scholar would be a hook, like a national level award is.

As I wrote, gifted kids are often underachievers. Colleges with challenging curricula will not want to admit a kid who will do so-so on their courses, even though they likely could do better. Even if the underachieving is because of the need for a challenge, a colleges like HMC doesn’t want students who will only do well on courses which they consider challenging, they prefer students who will do well on all courses.

Of course, if a student demonstrates brilliance extremely clearly, like, say, solving a previously unsolved mathematical problem, producing an original piece of research or writing, etc, they may not care that the student has a GPA of 3.4. Otherwise, the recommendations of teachers and GC’s that “we know that they’re brilliant” will likely not convince the college to ignore the relatively low GPA (which is still substantially higher than average).

The CTD camps are awesome, and most of the high school ones also provide HS credit, which can help boost a GPA, if the challenging environment of the classes results in higher grades.

@Aug2019 Changing school environments to home schooling and taking all classes at community college is the best suggestion so far — thank you very much. i just read a little bit about it, and it’s very easy to set it up in California. I’m going to look into it.

In terms of other posters — my son did have an IEP (where the expert wrote “this child has gifts beyond the ability of this test to test”), but his teachers are very resistant to incorporating his IEP, and even worse, they still grade him (like on ‘class participation’ like all the other kids in the class, ignoring his issues, so he gets a bad grade. (Ironically except his gym teacher, who has always been supportive of him).

In terms of all the teachers being “bad” — yes, pretty much they are. There were huge union problems last fall, and the teachers spent months refusing to do anything beyond ‘the minimum’, which honestly wasn’t even that much more noticeable than normal. When the union problems resolved, the attitude from the teachers was still atrocious — I’ve never seen teachers so quick to leave instantly the bell rings, then moan and complain about doing anything beyond the minimum.

Are there exceptions? Of course. And ironically my son, defends the teachers “the reason why they’re bitter and angry is because the students are bad”. The good news, is that the school district has a new superintendent, who is making many positive changes, and the new principal of the school cares a lot about both the teachers and the students, and he’s really doing everything he can to lift morale at the school.

But it will take a few years for these problems to resolve, and my son will have long moved on to another school. In the meantime; I can’t let his academic gifts — and his ability to work hard —to be overshadowed by the passive aggressive games his current teachers play.

(For example — the math department — no one is allowed to bring their quizzes or tests home, because there’s been problems with ‘cheating’ in the past and the math teachers don’t want to make new tests from year to year. But how is a student supposed to learn from their mistakes and improve if they can’t take the time to really focus and review their mistakes at home?

Do some students excel in this type of learning environment — of course. But it’s mostly the students who know how to charm their teachers and play into their passive aggressive power games. Not to mention parents and families who know how to schmooze and kiss the right a**. My son is definitely not one of them.

(Another example — a syllabus listing all the work (or at minimum the major tests and assignments) at the beginning of a semester, so the student can plan and execute a study plan? That’s too much to ask from the teachers too.)

There are literally teachers at this school whose idea of teaching is “open your books and read pages 1-20.” Next day “open your books and read pages 21-40”. This is not an exaggeration.

If you are still reading this, my son’s high school is Beverly Hills High School. Everything I have posted here is true and I have addressed these issues directly with all parties involved, from counselor to assistant principal to superintent. (The new superintendent, Dr. Bregy, has taken all of my concerns to heart and is working on numerous changes, as I am not the only parent with these concerns.) The problem with BHUSD is that the school board has spent too much time firing superintendents and principal over the last 20 years, so the teachers don’t think they have anyone to hold them accountable (or to support them when they need help). The school board is also making a commintment to fixing this problem as well, and I have no doubt in 5-10 years BHUSD will be one of the premiere district’s in the country.

(The high school already had a big jump in ranking just in the first year of the new superintendent taking over, but that’s mostly to do with the changes in academic infrastructure they’ve made, and it hasn’t trickled down to inside the classroom yet. (But it will).)

So to all of the skeptics — yes, your child can end up a bad school, that’s a bad fit for your children, and moving isn’t always a luxury all of us can afford.

The mistake I made was just reading the school ratings before I moved into the district, instead of going physically to the schools, taking to the teachers and going to a couple of pta meetings. What I would have known not to move here.

There are enormous positive changes going on, even as we speak, so whenever reads this, I think they will be blessed to live and go to school here.

But for my son? Not going to benefit. My son would tell you misbehaving students and some of the rude and entitled parents is what has caused this low morale/teachers not lifting a finger beyond the minimum culture, and as a parent I say you still have a professional ethical standard to meet as an educator, and if you can’t meet it, then you should be fired or quit. Doctors don’t get paid for research on complicated cases or phone calls to patients or families after hours — but it is an ethical and moral part of their professional responsibility.

In the end, my son will be fine, no matter where he goes to college. I had posted this question because I was hoping that there might be another way to convince colleges that there are other factors unfairly influencing grades at this particular institution, but perhaps that’s just not believable to a college.

Disappointing, but such is life. And the lessons my son has learned from all of this — especially the abusive of power lessons he’s gone through that deserve a posting all of their own — will perhaps only make him stronger in the long run throughout his life.