<p>This is creating unbelievable city v. suburbs angst. <a href=“http://www.freep.com/article/20111201/NEWS05/112010553/4-dozen-Catholic-parishes-targeted-close-merge-Detroit-suburbs?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE[/url]”>http://www.freep.com/article/20111201/NEWS05/112010553/4-dozen-Catholic-parishes-targeted-close-merge-Detroit-suburbs?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE</a></p>
<p>What has been the experience in your city?</p>
<p>I am no longer a Catholic, having moved to a different denomination years ago, but I have followed the news. I live in the Detroit area, and I thought it was interesting that the three churches I attended as a child … Fatima, LaSallette, and St. James … are asked to consider merging.</p>
<p>I believe it is understandable that parishes will be asked to merge or close. Part of the issue is lack of priests, but I think the bigger issue may be lack of Catholics. I attend a United Methodist church now, and I see the same thing in our churches. Friends at other churches have had the same experience. There certainly are growing churches in all denominations, but overall I think fewer people are practicing faith in the church environment.</p>
<p>We’ve had similar problems in our city. It is one of the points on which I most disagree with what the diocese is doing because I feel that they are abandoning their mission in these neighborhoods at a time when it is certainly still needed. </p>
<p>I would change denominations if I could but H and his family are staunch as they come.</p>
<p>Opposite experience in my old hometown (Southern Calif area) and new hometown (North Alabama area). Both areas are opening and have been opening new parishes. Existing parishes are building larger churches. </p>
<p>I think that some areas are shrinking while others are still growing. Running a parish is very expensive. My current parish collects about $27,000 every Sunday in envelopes and a few thou in loose money.</p>
<p>I’m seconding Kels. I’m a 4th generation Detroit/Detroit-area person (great-grandfather immigrated to Detroit, grandpa born and raised, dad born and raised- moved to the suburbs, then me born but moved to the suburbs). We’re all technically Catholics, too (but not practicing). According to my dad and grandpa, the majority of their churches were white and when white flight occurred, a lot of Catholics left. In the suburbs, it’s more just that people go to church less- especially Catholic churches.</p>
<p>Cities have emptied, suburbs have exploded in size.
Same thing here in Boston area.
Plan is to place parishes in 125 clusters and have them share clergy and resources.</p>
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<p>Why? A parish needs parisionshers. Detroit’s total population has declined by at least 25% over the last decade. Undoubtedly, the mix of religions has changed as well.</p>
<p>My parents grew up in two closely adjoining towns that had very active, distinct Catholic churches founded in both places by Irish, Polish, Slovak, Italian, and Rusyn/Ukrainian immigrants around the turn of the last century. Several had associated elementary and high schools that offered bilingual instruction for many years; most of those schools had closed or consolidated by the 60s when English was the predominate language in most homes. </p>
<p>In 2008, six separate RC parishes in the two towns were merged into one, and five churches closed and their buildings were put up for sale. Much angst and sorrow amongst the various congregations and one town now longer has an active church, but six separate RC churches operating to serve a combined population of 7,200 made the decision to consolidate a logical one. </p>
<p>In the article, I see a reference to St. Florian parish, with steeples that define the skyline of the once primarily Polish enclave of Hamtramck. Is the diocese consolidating churches founded by immigrants to serve their populations that are no longer are relevant and/or are redundant?</p>
<p>* Is the diocese consolidating churches founded by immigrants to serve their populations that are no longer are relevant and/or are redundant? *</p>
<p>I think this is common in the Midwest and NE where there were Catholic churches every few blocks because different ethnic groups each had their own church. It was a surprise to me the first time I ever drove around a part of Chicago that seemed to have a RC church on every corner. My dad explained to me that each group - Irish, Italian, German, Polish, etc, had their own church. Coming from Calif, that was odd to me. The only ethnic RC church I knew of in SoCal was a Polish one. </p>
<p>As communities mesh and people inter-marry within nationalities, there has been less need/desire for ethnic churches. </p>
<p>*the majority of their churches were white and when white flight occurred, a lot of Catholics left. In the suburbs, it’s more just that people go to church less- especially Catholic churches. *</p>
<p>While it’s true that in some mega-sized cities, white Catholics have moved out and the remaining ethnic groups aren’t Catholic, so the number of needed RC churches have declined. </p>
<p>But… It is NOT true that people in the suburbs (especially Catholics) go to church less. It’s the exact opposite. People in the suburbs go to church MORE…and that’s where the Church is expanding, building larger parishes and more parishes. the new parishes and new Catholic schools are in suburbs.</p>
<p>The Catholic diocese in Portland has solved this problem by importing Catholics from Africa via Catholic Charities. :)</p>
<p>I’m just joking, but seriously, the cathedral in Portland has a tremendously diverse congregation, with a lot of Africans. The diocese did choose to close their other large church, which I think used to be the “Irish church,” and it is now some kind of Irish cultural center/museum. Many old-timers were very unhappy about it, since it was the scene of most of their major rites of passage.</p>
<p>Churches have been closing/struggling in the downtown area in general. A church around the corner from mine closed, the building was sold, and it is now a restaurant and condos. IIRC, it was some variety of Presbyterian.</p>
<p>Maybe in your area, mom2, but definitely not where I live. Some churches are doing well but definitely not Catholic churches. My old Catholic school went from having three classes per grade level to split classes because there aren’t enough students. That isn’t unusual for Catholic schools around here.</p>
<p>Maybe in your area, mom2, but definitely not where I live. Some churches are doing well but definitely not Catholic churches.</p>
<p>Where do you live in Mich?</p>
<p>*My old Catholic school went from having three classes per grade level to split classes because there aren’t enough students. That isn’t unusual for Catholic schools around here. *</p>
<p>In an area that has lost economic affluence, that’s going to happen. Sending kids to Catholic schools has become an expensive luxury. In years past, parishes strongly supported the schools so tuition could be kept low and there were heavy discounts for multiple kids. After pressures that the schools become more self-supporting, tuition increased to the point where a family with 2+ kids had to rethink a Catholic K-12 education. I can remember when my kids were in 3rd and 1st grade and their tuition increased to $3k per year/child…no discount for multiple kids. The school lost many students and had to open enrollment to non-Catholics (something that school had never done before). Those Catholics with 3 - 4 kids in grades K-8 couldn’t afford the $9k-12k per year could no longer afford the school. That same school now charges $6k per year for one child. Still a good deal, but unaffordable for many. The parish still provides some support, but tuition is now covering more expenses.</p>
<p>People have a hard enough time paying for 4 years at their flagship U, much less payout $40k+ for each of their kids’ K-8 grades.</p>
<p>We almost sent our S to a Catholic secondary school (due to its quality) but backed out at the last minutes. We are not Catholics so some Catholic schools do accept non-Catholics.</p>
<p>When S was in high school, several of the all-state musical students from a couple of neighboring high schools were invited to perform at another Catholic school during Christmas, just because their band director taught at both schools (the public one where S went to and that “expensive” Catholic school in an affluent neighborhood where the band director lives.) They even paid these high school music instrument players quite generously. Usually, these semi-musicians donate what they “earn” though. (S did a lot of these in college also.)</p>
<p>I am interested in topics on CC related to Catholic because S’s closest friend (and his family) is a Catholic. His family treated S very well while he was in college. I think S still meets him occasionally when there is a chance (e.g., going to the game, or when one of them visits the other’s city) even though they now live hundreds miles apart.</p>
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<p>I’ve lived all over Wayne County. Moved quite a bit. </p>
<p>My Catholic school was not in a wealthy area at all to begin with (Garden City)- but most of the students were from Westland/GC/elsewhere. Many Catholic schools are down, but that wasn’t my main point. The point was that Catholic churches are seeing far fewer people- it’s only further emphasized by the lower enrollment of students. People, at least in my experience, are moving away from Catholicism and/or becoming “lax Catholics”. They start going to more liberal or non-denominational churches. None of the people that were in my graduating class (I think there were 26 of us?) go to church on a regular basis like their parents do. </p>
<p>Again, I can only speak for churches in my area and Catholics that I know. I know a lot of people at Catholic schools (my Godmother teaches at another one in Wayne County) and they all seem to be hurting (and so are the churches!).</p>