<p>Does anyone else have a kid whose high school operates on the 4 x 4 block schedule whereby (s)he takes four new classes each semester with each class running for 90 minutes daily? If so, I would like to know what you think of the system.</p>
<p>My daugher stays so worn out from having to sit for ninety straight minutes in each class. There is only a five minute break to change classes, and some kids have to endure three ninety minute sessions before lunch each day! Many argue that this is preparing them for a college schedule, but I beg to differ. My college-aged daughter says that her longest class that she has ever had was only one hour and fifteen minutes and met just twice a week. She has SO enjoyed not having ninety minute classes in college that she now realizes more and more how horribly taxing that was on her both physically and mentally. Having them back to back in h.s. is truly torturous on the kids IMO.</p>
<p>There is so much material for a teacher to cover in just one semester (since the whole course is taught only over half of the year) that the workload of homework is often unbearable, too. Besides, most kids can only absorb a few new concepts per day, yet they have to keep going at gangbuster speed to even “touch on” all the material they are expected to learn. They often have to skip one or two semesters in between taking math, English, and foreign language courses. I have no doubt that SAT scores are affected heavily by this gap. There is no time for field trips, class assemblies, even the old pep rallies (although my kids always hated those). </p>
<p>IMO, block scheduling was created to appease complaining teachers without much thought to how it affects the students. I am a h.s. teacher on 4 x 4 block scheduling, and yes, it’s wonderful as a teacher to have to teach only three courses per day and to have a ninety minute planning period in addition to a forty-five minute lunch break! However, it’s not in the best interest of the students at all, and aren’t they the ones we should really be focusing on?</p>
<p>i wouldn’t be able to do it. i tried to take the 50 minute classes in college as often as possible, and if i couldn’t then i took a 75 minute. i occasionally took a night class which was 2 and a half hours, however they always gave you breaks throughout the night.</p>
<p>The other reason for 4x4 block scheduling is that it allows students to retake failed classes without going to summer school. At my d’s school, classes that were continuations for some kids (Spanish 3) were cancelled because they needed to reteach Spanish 1!</p>
<p>In our district every school that was on the 4x4 for the entire high school career of last year’s seniors saw a significant drop in SAT scores. The only school that didn’t was my d’s school which has the county-wide academically advanced program. The 2 high schools which had a traditional 6 or 7 period day both saw increases.</p>
<p>This is the fifth year of the 4x4 and it will be the last year. Test scores (including APs) have been horrible.</p>
<p>The disadvantages to the 4x4 include not having enough electives for students that don’t fail, not being able to have continuous math and foreign language classes and teachers that never adapted so they don’t teach for the full 90 minutes and then get the end of the semester and everything has not been covered for the state mandated graduation tests!</p>
<p>My d, who is now a college freshman, asked me to call the school board and tell them that she has no class that is an hour and a half every day and that her foreign language class meets everyday!</p>
<p>We are catering to the slower, often lazy (not always) students who know that they can fail English in the fall and simply repeat it in the spring. They can fail about four classes on 4 x 4 scheduling and still graduate on time! Our higher level and motivated students must suffer through extreme homework loads, intense stress, and as you said, Thatmom, not enough decent electives for them to take since they are passing everything else.</p>
<p>As a matter of fact, our school district has totally eliminated summer school recently because it is no longer needed. Our failing students have plenty of chances to repeat their courses on block! We are continually “dumbing down” in our high schools in order to make everyone feel smart.</p>
<p>When I was in high school, we had block scheduling, but we had each class every other day, every day would have been to much. The “preparing you for college” thing is bogus. No one has the same class more than 3 times a week, and if it is three times a week, they’re only 50 min long. Some classes are offered in a once a week 3 hr block, but it’s rare and those are normally the night classes. This would be equivilant to taking four 9 credit classes.</p>
<p>Our schools had a 7 period 4 block a day schedule for several years. There are no study halls for anyone at anytime. The main difficulty was the potential long stretch between classes, especially when there were holidays and long weekends. Some teachers were very good at appropriately filling the 90 minutes, others lost steam after an hour. DD didn’t especially mind it -they started it in 7th grade, but noticed a big difference when they changed to a 7 period 5 block a day schedule for her junior year. Classes were now 68 minutes long. In either set up they had homeroom twice a year - the announcements and attendance happened in first block. Lunches were scheduled during 4th block (102 minutes) which could mean that lunch (26 minutes) was either at the beginning, middle or end of your 4th block class.
I’m not sure I understand how classes could be retaken. It was not possible in the system our school used,</p>
<p>Classes can be repeated because the students only take four courses per semester, then replace them with four more courses for the next semester. They take eight different courses per year as long as they pass everything. They are allowed to immediately repeat many of the classes that they failed first semester as second semester courses. Not many finish out the year without being promoted although they may have taken Algebra I or English, etc. twice in the same year. There are 28 courses required for graduation, so they can totally fail 4 and still make it as long as they pass the core subjects after several tries!</p>
<p>I think the block schedule is pretty similar to college courses. Although I had a traditional high school experience (6-7 50 min periods a day), I would’ve preferred the block schedule because there’s less busywork assigned, and the teachers are more on the ball because there’s only a semester to cram it all in. </p>
<p>The worse schedule I had was a 2 hour class in the morning, 3 hour lab in the afternoon, and 3 hour lecture at night. However, this was only once a week for one semester, and really, you just learn to adjust.</p>
<p>My kids have never had block scheduling. Their school operates on seven 42 minutes periods. Our older son did have AP Physics and AP Calc BC back to back with the same teacher, in the same room, for senior year. It was great for these two classes (90 minutes of related subjects) but I don’t think either would like it in general. </p>
<p>The real down side, to me, would be continuity. Things like foreign languages and math really need consecutive semesters. Do you find that it hurts math studies? I’m not sure I see any advantages for the students.</p>
<p>Our high school uses 4 x 4 block scheduling. Approximately 35% of our students to on to community college or a 4 year school; we have a large ESL population. The school offers approximately 7 AP courses which are full year, every other day. Music courses (including band) are also full year. The real challenge comes when trying to schedule AP courses, music and foreign language. Many language courses are only offered once a year and there must be a minimum of 8 students to hold the class. On paper, it appears we have many, many courses, but the majority of them are never offered because of an inadequate population interested in the courses. My daughter is only a sophomore but I can already tell how challenging it’s going to be in terms of scheduling to have a rigorous schedule. This year she is doing two independent study courses as she couldn’t schedule Honors Pre-Calc and Molecular Genetics was cancelled due to lack of interest. I think block scheduling hinders those students who are attempting to take an academically rigorous load in order to be competitive for the more selective colleges- at least where I live!</p>
<p>both my Ds have had modified block classes-
D in private school had 7 classes- one day each week, each class was a double block- D in public has 6 classes but same thing.
The double block, gives more time for projects, labs etc.</p>
<p>Our public school system went to block scheduling because it allows students to take 8 classes per year instead of 7, this was ostensibly to allow extra flexibility when the state mandated a 4X4 curriculum for graduation - 4 years each of math, science, English and history/gov. Summer school attendence has decreased, but hasn’t disappeared because some kids need 8 classes plus summer school to pass!
Many teachers hate it, for all the reasons given. My husband likes the fact that he can prep the students and have a lab all in the same period - he would do the eplanation for the lab one day, then run the lab the next day, and sometimes the kids didn’t get the connection. But, he’s about the only person that really sees an advantage.
It has really been tough on band and chorus.</p>
<p>It really is detrimental to math and foreign languages in particular. A lot of review is required in these courses prior to beginning the next level, so that consumes about a week or more of instruction time. Also, both of my daughters essentially went one whole year between levels of Spanish and levels of math. It definitely hurt them on the math portion of the SATI and both have always been strong math students; they just were WAY out of practice with the basics.</p>
<p>As far as the level of busywork, it’s probably more in 4 x 4 block because ninety minutes is a lot of time to fill for any teacher. This forces more worksheets, more in-class written assignments, etc. Many teachers, as someone said, do not really know how to handle teaching for such a long time with a group of young students whose minds tend to wander after about thirty to forty minutes. (even shorter attention span on many)</p>
<p>My son’s school is on this schedule and he never seemed to have any problems with the length of the classes. The problem we do have though is that if you want to take orchestra (2 blocks per year) plus AP classes, you run out
of room for required courses. As a result, my son will need to take 5 extra on-line classes just to meet the graduation requirements.
I agree that most of college classes are either 3 X 50 minutes a week or 2 X 75 minutes a week, but there are the exceptions: my summer lecture classes are 2 hours 30 minutes long. And I use every second of it (well, I am not that cruel :), I give my students 10 minute break)</p>
<p>Yes, I totally agree…the gaps for Math and foreign language are really tough. My d has this schedule, she’s an excellent student (4.27 GPA), but these are the 2 subject areas that have given her the most trouble. Its possible to go a year without the subject, and that really can cause problems, not only for the class but for SAT’s. She had wanted to go on in Spanish, made it thru Span IV, but Span V was too hard and she got mono and then she had to drop it.</p>
<p>But the school claims their students standardized tests scores are equal or above the other equivalent high schools with regular scheduling…not sure I believe that though.</p>
<p>The other downside no one has mentioned is that with the pace of 4x4, if they are ill, or god forbid need a day off (mental health? college visits?), it can be killer to catch up upon returning. My d had mono, as I mentioned, but luckily the teachers worked with us to get through it.
And yes, she is exhausted much of the time.</p>
<p>On the flip side, and maybe no one else here is in this situation, but my s has learning disabilities. We were advised against the 4x4 for him, as they said it would move too fast for him. (But if he could just re-take the class, that isn’t such a big deal; I hadn’t thought about it that way). So we were steered to the other local hs w/ regular scheduling, for him. They take 6 subjects ( except electives) for the whole year. They do 1-3-5 days alternating with 2-4-6 days…but he complains that the class periods are too long…This is a large “comprehensive” high school with more of the services he needs than the smaller 4x4 my daughter attends.</p>
<p>kind of interesting having two totally different kids ( one “GATE” and one “LD”) at 2 different schools…its like a fulltime job for me keeping up with these 2, especially now that d is starting college apps…
but I digress!</p>
<p>I think it would be near impossible for any student to have their non ap math or foreign language on point with this kind of schedule. </p>
<p>Also, what is the point of all of this take it over nonsense?</p>
<p>It is nice to know that a student can have a shot of redemption by taking something over during their school day if they flunk it. But, why should that be considered a “blessed” option at schools that have this odd 4x4 scheduling?</p>
<p>I do not understand. It seems to me that it is like, well if the schedule is too much…you can always take a class over? </p>
<p>That is not going to look nice to University addy offices at all. </p>
<p>I feel 100 years old. Because when I was a youngster there was none of this at all. And, it was like really shameful if you had to take things over.</p>
<p>I’m glad you mentioned about absences, Wecandothis. That is so true about it being next to impossible to make up the vast amount of work one misses for an illness or doctor’s appointment. Heaven forbid your child should have an extended illness. That is why so many of the brighter kids continue to go to school with fevers and contagious illness. They cannot afford to be absent. Missing one day is the equivalent of missing at least two days on a traditional schedule. I never have allowed my kids to do college visits that involved missing ANY school due to block. We only do summer, holiday, or weekend visits. Also, all of our appointments are scheduled for after school hours, which usually perturbs orthodontists who cannot possibly see all of their patients after school.</p>
<p>I think the long class periods are especially hard for kids with learning disabilities. They need fewer concepts presented each day and plenty of time to absorb and retain the material before being bombarded with more new material. I still strongly prefer 50 -55 minute class periods for all students.</p>
<p>I wish the best for you, Wecandothis, with your situation - two totally different kids in different school! Wow! I do have a friend with an almost identical situation and she is definitely on my “Superwoman List.”</p>
<p>Memie-
Thanks for the encouragement-- you made my day! Yes, it does keep me on my toes.
Anyhow, I’d really like to see some good stats on test scores of 4x4 vs regular…but I’m too busy right now to take that on!
Maybe it is just for the teachers, but as you say, isn’t it supposed to be about what’s good for the kids?</p>
<p>In our district the students take the PSAT 9,10, and 11 grades. It was funny when they were trying to tell us the first year that block scheduling would not affect(effect?) the test scores that the students who had Math first semester scored better on the math portion of the PSAT and the students who had English first semester scored better on the verbal portion.</p>
<p>The parents noticed it because some students have definite scoring patterns (my d’s verbal is always higher than her math - except for the 9th grade PSATs when she was taking math and not english), when we pointed it out to the school they still insisted they were right!</p>
<p>All I can say is that the SAT scores for last year’s class came out yesterday and all the schools that were on the 4x4 (except my d’s) had significant drops - so now the 4x4 is out effective with the next school year.</p>
<p>wecandothis, I read research years ago that said the only students that could tolerate sitting through a 90 minute class were the academically minded ones. Students with learning and attention disorders would go crazy.</p>
<p>It works really well at the schools around here that use it. Of course, they also have a fifteen minute break between period 1 and period 2, break entirely for lunch (40 min) and then again 15 min between p3 and p4.</p>
<p>If this schedule is new to the school, you might take your concern about short breaks to the principal.</p>
<p>As well, teaching a 90-min class (which I have done since 1994), requires a different rhythm. You can not (NOT!) lecture for 90 minutes straight. Typically the best 90-min classes have a 1/3-1/3-1/3 plan; lecture for 15 min, lab for 45-60, discuss and begin writeup for 15-30 was my usual plan for lab days, as an example. The math teachers often do HW review (15), lecture and work examples (60), begin HW (15). English teachers often begin and end with a writing/journaling session, or put in a vocab lesson every day.</p>
<p>Oh, and as for ADD students, some of them find having fewer classes to focus on makes life a lot easier. It can be easier to keep four notebooks organized than 6 or 7!</p>