4 x 4 Block Really Wears Out My Daughter

<p>Our school system requires 28 units to graduate. If you pass all 8 classes every year, you’ll graduate with 32. S came home yesterday and said they had made an announcement at school that due to the change to the 4x4 system, it will be possible for seniors to graduate after the first semester of senior year if they have completed all required courses by then. It will be interesting to see how many take advantage of that option.</p>

<p>You’re from NC, too, PackMom! I am a little leery of letting them graduate early. Most cannot start college until the following fall, and not staying in the swing of studying can really be detrimental to even the best of students in my opinion. Working is fine, but it is not necessarily the best situation for a strong academic student with lofty college plans. And then… I especially worry about those that just scraped by and graduated early. What will they do with a free semester??? get into trouble due to boredom???</p>

<p>Yes, my d and I just realized she will have not one, but 1 1/2 YEARS, between her last Math class Jr year and Calc AB next spring! She is a senior. I just freaked out when I realized this…her GC is fairly useless obviously, and somehow this one got past me. Then she said she waited in line to see her GC about it, but never made it to see the GC, and now the deadline to change has passed. ( well I was also mad at her because she didn’t bring it to my attention sooner!!) And this is at a highly regarded public school! And she may have to take Math II subject test this fall for college apps. I’ve had to spend money for a math tutor in the past due to the “gap”…but the students really don’t have time to fit in tutoring on the off semester with ECs comm dservice, etcetc, and I can’t really afford it either.
I need to “call” the GC on the math class problem, but as she is about to write my ds college recommendation, I don’t really want to get on her bad side. aarrgghh!</p>

<p>Also the AP issue is a huge one, as others have pointed out.</p>

<p>Hi Memie, yes I’m in NC too. If mine were to graduate early (in Dec.) I would insist that he spend the spring semester taking intro. classes at the community college that would transfer to any of our state u’s. </p>

<p>Another option which he is more likely to do is called the College Experience which allows Jrs. and Srs. to leave high school early each day (after their
2nd block class) and take up to 2 classes per semester at the Comm. College. The school system pays for it(books and all) and the kids get college credit and high school credit. This seems to be a good alternative to passing the time away taking useless electives but still remaining in h.s. to take part in all the spring senior activities.</p>

<p>On the 4x4 block: about half of the HS’s in our area have it, about half don’t. Several years ago my son’s math teacher showed me a bar graph of SAT scores - they were pretty well segregated by regular schedule vs. block, with scores for the block HS’s being considerably lower.</p>

<p>Also: friend with brilliant son had him in school with 4x4 block. Kid loves science / math / computer science and barely tolerates English / language / SS. Semesters when he didn’t have a science / math / CS course, he was a different person - and not a very nice person. She learned to dread those English-heavy semesters - not so much for what they did to her son’s grades (not much - this kid is REALLY smart), but because of what the frustration of having to spend all his time studying something he wasn’t very interested in did to him. [Good sentence to diagram there … ]</p>

<p>Anyway, another friend’s daughter also attended school with 4x4 block, and had a different problem: all her really hard subjects one semester, all of the really easy ones the next. </p>

<p>I am really NOT a fan of 4x4 block scheduling and am very glad that my kids don’t have it. Dealing with the effects of the summer break on math prep is hard enough … Maybe it would work better if a school took several years to really revamp curriculum, but I have yet to see that happen. And the effects of even a good curriculum revamp can be undone by scheduling problems.</p>

<p>My high school ran on an modified block schedule. Monday, Tuesday, and Friday were regular, 7 period, 48 minute classes. On Wednesday we had three ninety minute classes and a late start. On Thursday we had four ninety minute classes.</p>

<p>The system seemed to allow the best of both forms of scheduling. Classes like math and language were still a year long, and science and art classes had longer days to do their labs and projects. But three of the five days of the week were still “regular” days, and there was a chunk of time available on Wednesday mornings for assemblies and such.</p>

<p>waterdaughter- I was interested in the test scores you mentioned. When you say the block schools were lower, do you mean the 4x4 schools? That’s my assumption anyhow, and its very interesting that although there is actual data showing all the problems with 4x4, it continues to be used. Guess the term “4x4 block” is confusing to me, because in our town a 4x4 is offered (quarter system, 8 classes per year, 4 classes per day) OR a block (semeter system, 6 classes, 3 per day, with odd and even days), but there is no “4x4 block” per se…I’m amazed at all the different terminology, variations and flavors around the country.</p>

<p>About the option to graduate early-- seems like that is always used to sell the 4x4, but in my d’s school, not many take advantage of it. I did hear of one that graduated early and spent spring in Europe, but that was the exception to the rule. i didn’t encourage my d to graduate early, even though she could have easily done it, because I didn’t think the maturity level was there to be out of hs!</p>

<p>The community college classes in our area are so much easier than high school honors and AP classes that they are really not challenging enough for the brighter students. Somehow they do transfer into our state universities -even UNC-Chapel Hill! I am continually shocked by this. My own nephew barely lifted a finger at the local community college when he took several courses there his senior year in h.s., and yet, he entered NCSU as almost a sophomore! Then, he crashed a little because the work load was much harder than he had been accustomed to handling. He got lazy by taking an easy senior year schedule and it ended up really hurting him in the end.</p>

<p>My boys’ school uses the “modified block” – the A B schedule 8 classes taken at a time but only 4 per day . </p>

<p>My niece’s school uses another version - 7 classes taken at a time, but only 5 classes per day. They use a “rotation schedule” so you don’t have the same class period at the same time each day (12345, 23456,34567,45671,56712, 67123, 71234,12345). It sounds complicated, but believe me, it’s not (I went to the same school and we had the same rotation schedule --except in my day the last period (it was a shorter class) did not rotate so that seniors could leave.) The kids “pick up” on the program very quickly. The best part about the rotation schedule is that if you have a science or math class that is 5, 6, or 7th period, then you sometimes get to have it in the morning when you are more alert! </p>

<p>In many ways, the rotation schedule is the best of all worlds. Classes aren’t too long – since they have 5 classes per day (The day goes 2 classes, then a 15 min nutrition break, then 1 class, then lunch, then 2 classes). The students have each class 3 - 4 times per week (never just twice - which happens with the AB schedule) which is better for teaching math, science and foreign languages.</p>

<p>This works well when all or mostly all of your faculty teach full-time. It is a bit of a problem if you have a lot of part time faculty who have to constantly adjust the starting time and the ending time of their work day.</p>

<p>Memie & Packmom - I’m in TN & my son will have enough credits to graduate after first semester. We’ve considered letting him do that & attend the local community college in the spring, but I’m concerned that he would be considered a transfer student by colleges he would be applying to. I can’t find anyone in our area who has done this. What is your experince?</p>

<p>My nephew was still taking a class at his h.s. when he took the community college classes, so I really don’t know about a situation like your son’s, TNMom. It is worth checking the whole thing out, though, before he makes his decision.</p>

<p>In our experience as long as you are still attending high school while taking the community college classes you would still be considered a freshman. But if you gradaute and then take classes, then depending on the particular school you are applying to and how many units you completed after graduation you would then be considered a transfer. Would affect some scholarships I would think.</p>

<p>Oldest daughter went to CC while still in high school so she was still considered a freshman. We didn’t want to run into that very specific issue so kiddos didn’t graduate early even though they could have. Early as in December graduation not a year early.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

<p>i think block scheduling really limits the amount of courses you can take. i mean, isn’t it typically four each semester? so a kid can only take 8 classes in a year? i mean my school district does 8 classes a day, and there are 2 semesters - fall and spring, and two quarters in each semester. a major class is once a day for both semesters (science, math, social studies, foreign language) and then your other courses are broken into semesters. you can pick and choose what english you want to take - one semester at a time… as well as whatever electives you want, one semester at a time… and some courses meet every other day for that semester.</p>

<p>using my sister as an example… currently a senior</p>

<p>in 11th she wound up having chem, trig, american civ, spanish 3, accounting, shakesphere 1, mythology, english lit 1, american lit 1, computer graphics, web design, gym, health, sociology, psychology, and child development.</p>

<p>this year she has gym, health, economics, basic baking, advanced computer graphics, animation, statistics, humanities, multimedia design, writing themes, english lit 2, weaving, and physics.</p>

<p>both my girls schools had year long classes-
private school 7 classes-public 6
only difference was that the private had room for two arts electives and public school had occ ed requirements.
Both had PE requirements, but my D in private was able to fulfill that in an after school class, and D in public is able to use her school sports team for the credit.
the modified block gave each class an opportunity to have a double block once a week- and one day when you didn’t have that class. So each class was still only 5 hours a week.
I think the 4X4 would be difficult for students who need time to process information- it would be especially difficult for math and language learning I would think for any but the most agile learners.
However, if you really like the 4x4 system, you may love Colorado college- which only teaches one course at a time.</p>

<p>"My two youngest kids started first grade with a block schedule and it was ideal for them "</p>

<p>I think you are talking apples and oranges. I bet they didn’t spend only half the year doing math and another half the year doing science. That’s the situation of a typical high school student doing 4x4 blocks.</p>

<p>fender: so a kid can only take 8 classes in a year?</p>

<p>I think you misunderstand. With a block schedule, each year, kids can take 8 classes that are worth 1 year EACH. If a class is only worth a semester (1/2 credit) than it is finished in a quarter. That means, such a kid can take more than 8 classes in a year, but 2 or 4 of them will only be worth a semester. </p>

<p>For example: During the first semester, a kid could take 3 classes that are “worth” one year each and take 2 classes that are “worth” 1 semester each (1 during 1st quarter and 1 during 2nd quarter). During the second semester, the same kid could take 3 classes that are “worth” one year each and, again, take 2 classes that are worth 1 semester each (1 during 3rd qtr and 1 during 4th qtr. That child will end up taking 10 classes that year but will end up with 8 credits (1 credit equals 1 year).</p>

<p>Another problem with each way is transfers…if a kid moves in form a traditional schedule school to a block school during the school year it could be a tough match.</p>

<p>csdad…</p>

<p>That is sooo true. We have that problem here. At our kids private school (which does not do 4x4) there are kids who “flunk out” after the first qtr or first semester, but then they have to go to public which has 4X4. It’s a huge problem.</p>

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<p>Well, yes, and then again, no. Blocks were/are typically about six weeks each, so they’re usually framed around breaks in the calendar; the theory is that kids incubate what they’ve learned in a particular block and then return to it months later with renewed depth and insight. It really did seem to work. But you’re completely correct that a Waldorf high school isn’t “typical.” I offer it only as another data point in the discussion. Sometimes it’s nice to look at a broader range of possibilities in our global community instead of getting stuck looking at just what’s in the backyard.</p>

<p>edit to add something I forgot</p>

<p>I should add that Waldorf education is far more integrated than what I’ve seen in typical public HS (with exceptions – our local HS’s Visual Arts Academy does indeed integrate disciplines). So “math” and “science” aren’t totally separate disciplines, any more than Renaissance art, 15th Century History, and Musical Birth of the Baroque would be.</p>

<p>I’ve never been totally convinced by the incubation theory - though it worked for me with calculus in a way. I have a cousin who is a Waldorf teacher and a sister-in-law who took some of their courses until she decided she couldn’t buy the party line enough. I also worked on a Rudolf Steiner influenced project while I was in Germany. I like the idea of integrating subjects more. My favorite lecture in one of my architectural history classes was one where the prof. introduced Romantic architecture with an extravaganza that included Beethoven and Caspar David Friedrich paintings and readings of Wordsworth.</p>