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Parents Forum
1201

<p>@pizzagirl, based on your descriptions in one of your posts here, I have a good hunch about where you went to high school. If this is the place I am thinking of, I suggest this probably influences your comments portraying nerds as socially inept people who don’t have the wherewithal to shower. It’s a place with a lot of pressure to conform and is obsessed with image.</p>

<p>You seem to keep coming back to this. I don’t think this is very fair because as I have said before, I know quite a few very brilliant people, and I have a hard time coming up with someone like you describe. You also seem to think social skills are a static thing.</p>

<p>Just because someone is awkward as a teenager and has some odd habits doesn’t mean they don’t have feelings. It also doesn’t mean that they can’t mature and evolve. Social skills are not something that come naturally to all people. However, if someone is very book smart, they often can use their abilities to adjust socially. There are many who are incredibly successful (which is part of the reason I really dislike the idea of labeling people as having aspergers and pathologizing their social struggles).</p>

<p>A lot of my friends who originally started college as kind of closed off and aloof actually grew tremendously over the years. They may have been completely opposed to college parties freshman year, but now they are happy to go to house parties and bars with friends. They don’t try to look down on or compare themselves to other people, they just do what they feel is right for them. This includes me. I was very closed minded in high school, but when I was got to college, I found myself. I tried a lot of things, some I liked, some I didn’t. Even though I found out being in a sorority wasn’t for me, being in a sorority is perfect for my sister and gets her involved in great things. Honestly, what bothers me now is not how someone decides to live their life, but rather projections of entitlement and/or disdain for other people.</p>

<p>Anyway, to address a previous question, I began on my current path when I was in second grade. I was invited to a special math group and was told I was good at math. That’s when I started to notice I learned more quickly that my classmates, I eventually took algebra I in 7th grade. However in 8th grade and in high school I hit some roadblocks because of difficulties I had, academically and emotionslly. I began to think I was bad at math because I wasn’t fast enough to finish tests. Emotionally I didn’t know how to connect with others and was miserable.</p>

<p>It’s odd, since even though I am about to start a PhD in theoretical physics, I was initially attracted to chemistry, I thought I wasn’t good enough at math for physics. What changed my mind was when I realized that being good at physics/math wasn’t about being able to compute a bunch of integrals/what not at top speed, but to develop an understanding and intuition from the basics. That’s when I started to see the beauty that drew me to physics.</p>

1202

<p>“pizzagirl, based on your descriptions in one of your posts here, I have a good hunch about where you went to high school. If this is the place I am thinking of, I suggest this probably influences your comments portraying nerds as socially inept people who don’t have the wherewithal to shower. It’s a place with a lot of pressure to conform and is obsessed with image.”</p>

<p>Nope, I’m quite sure you’re wrong. It was an average upper middle class suburban school. Not a New Trier, if that’s what you’re thinking. And as I said, <em>I</em> was a nerd in high school and didn’t blossom/bloom til I got to college where it was finally cool to be smart. I agree social skills don’t come naturally to a lot of people. Heck, I’d rather be home with a book on Saturday night than in a bar, and I was that way in college too. Went to a few frat parties – not my scene. </p>

<p>Holistic admissions isn’t about ensuring someone is popular/the life of the party. It’s just ensuring they can interact with others. </p>

1203

<p>" I suggest this probably influences your comments portraying nerds as socially inept people who don’t have the wherewithal to shower."</p>

<p>I think this is an odd accusation to make, since nowhere have I conflated “nerds” (=card carrying member of the geek-out-over-learning-new-things club) with “socially inept people who don’t have the wherewithal to shower.” </p>

1204

<p>"The issue is in many mainstream US high school cultures and to some extent, the world at large outside certain nerd safe havens like some hardcore engineering/tech firms, the mainstream social pyramid and larger US culture tends to overwhelmingly favor those who are perceived as “non-nerds” than those who are perceived as “nerds.”</p>

<p>Once you’ve done with high school - which, for me at least, was 30 years ago – why would “what they think in mainstream US high school culture” matter in the least?. Cobrat, I know you like to spend long periods of time engaging in rehashing high school and what all the players thought of this, that and the other thing. But most normal adults leave their high school years behind. I was a smart, bookish, somewhat nerdy girl who, although cute and attractive, was never going to be Miss Popularity. I didn’t care because I knew I was smart and that was going to get me someplace and I was going to leave them all behind, which I did. Over and done. </p>

1205

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<p>Did someone on this thread say or imply that awkward teenagers “don’t have feelings”?</p>

1206

<p>Thank you, Nrdsb4!</p>

1207

<p>“No, @collegealum, I actually do mean it is biased against women. Several professors have said that. Women on average score 150 points lower. Howard Georgi said in an interview that of his best students, a few of the women had actually performed poorly on the physics GRE. I thinks it’s partially because the PGRE is about speed and memorization and women are disproportionately affected by anxiety in these areas. That was always my problem.”</p>

<p>I think you’re projecting. You, yourself, may have been disproportionately affected by anxiety in test-taking, but that doesn’t make a test “biased against women.” In any case, what if indeed women in general are “lower” than men in physics or whatever - even if you could remove all artificial barriers? It shouldn’t matter, because you still should treat any woman interested in physics commensurate with HER abilities, not “abilities of women in general.”</p>

1208

<p>Personally, when talk starts to fixate on what one poster feels is a superior perspective, it takes me right back to the underlying question of social skills. </p>

1209

<p>My exact reasoning may not be correct, but I have read several articles and spoken with people who used this terminology regarding the PGRE. </p>

<p>@pizzagirl, yes I was thinking about New Trier so I was incorrect.</p>

1210

<p>Does criticizing a stranger’s or acquaintance’s social skills go back to poem’s point about some having fewer abilities in this area but still having the potential for hurt feelings? Does it say something about the social skills of the one doing the criticizing? This post plainly demonstrates my obvious lack of social skills. ; )</p>

1211

<p>Alh, assuming you mean me, is it ok to call hijack? Or is that not “nice?” How about being lectured to? We’ve all got responsibilities here. (Not aiming at you, btw.)</p>

1212

<p>Sorry, Poeme. Not even the right state, as I didn’t go to high school in Illinois. Have never lived on the North Shore except in Evanston as a college student, which doesn’t quite count. I think like cobrat, you like to make a lot of assumptions about me that fit stereotypes. </p>

1213

<p>“Does criticizing a stranger’s or acquaintance’s social skills go back to poem’s point about some having fewer abilities in this area but still having the potential for hurt feelings? Does it say something about the social skills of the one doing the criticizing?”</p>

<p>It’s interesting, because Cobrat always postulates this world where the math/science/technical nerds, having been looked down upon and ignored in high school, then do the very same thing by creating elaborate stereotypes of kids who are well-to-do, conventionally good looking, conventionally popular, etc. and then thinking it’s ok to stereotype them as being stupid, bourgeois, follow-the-crowd, etc. One would think they would want to be better than that. But they aren’t, so that makes them no better than the popular-kids-who-were-looking-down in the first place.</p>

1214

<p>"Wozniak engineered the first Apple hardware upon which Steve Jobs could implement his conceptualization of marketing and aesthetic computer design for Apple. That and they joined in with Bill Gates & Microsoft in raiding Xerox’s Parc labs for ideas for their respective Windowed-based graphical user interface based operating systems which continued to be embodied in current commercial operating systems like Apple OSX and Microsoft Windows.</p>

<p>** That’s not to say he had no techie chops as he shown he had quite a bit when he went to NeXT computers which germinated the seed for the BSD derivative-based Mac OSX. However, Jobs’ main contributions which made Apple what it has become was mainly in the conceptualizing of the marketing and aesthetics of the external hardware design and graphical user interfaces. "</p>

<p>Going into incredible detail about things that are profoundly and utterly off topic is also indicative of social skills. </p>

1215

<p>^ I don’t know how we even got on that nerd point (anti-nerd vibe) or why it has to be gone over so much. We had segued into how to encourage budding scientists, particularly girls- how that offends anyone beats me. There was no presumption these girls had social issues. And we talked about continuing inequities, which some experienced and others didn’t. Even with some contention swirling, I found it interesting, as a woman, a sort of broad reality-check or update. </p>

<p>I think anyone who entered STEM in any form and found it fascinating, had to have moments, at least, when they focused intently, based on their own excitement at both the new discoveries and the task of following them. Nothing wrong with that. And you can still come up for air and interact. Fact is, plenty of kids on campuses do and it benefits the whole. </p>

1216

<p>We got onto the nerd point because people conflated “didn’t have the ability to demonstrate via essays and/or interviews that could be a team player, play well with others, be a good addition to the campus, etc.” with “oh, well, I guess they’re NOT THE LIFE OF THE PARTY then.” Which, of course, has nothing to do with anything, because the social skills needed to be a worthwhile addition to (insert college of choice) campus aren’t necessarily about being a social butterfly or the life of the party, and are perfectly consistent with being studious and committed to one’s studies. </p>

1217

<p>Yup. Someone gets some idea and just lets it take over their thinking and the rest of us somehow get painted as “at fault.” Ha, I think I used to call out, “follow the thread.” </p>

<p>The idea colleges value the party kid over academics is baloney. The idea you are either devoted or a frivolous wastrel- and then proving it because something or other happened or didn’t in your hs or on your college campus or with some pubic figure or acquaintance- doesn’t necessarily add to anything. Especially when it turns to lecture. I want to say, get a room. Ie, some should start their own threads, see what takers they get.</p>

1218

<p>"The idea colleges value the party kid over academics is baloney. "</p>

<p>Of course it is. But that’s the rationalization used when the kid who has been unable to portray himself as having anything in his life other than grinding away at his academics gets passed over. Rather than say, gosh, it’s possible to be studious, industrious, etc. but also show sparks of life and the ability to contribute something interesting - and maybe I should work on those skills – it’s easier to be defensive and say - oh, well, I guess I just didn’t put a lampshade on my head or juggle cats on unicycles or I guess I just wasn’t one of the popular homecoming court kids they must want. Which is, of course, a complete misstatement. </p>

1219

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<p>PG,</p>

<p>Your statements above and posting history really illustrates the saying “There is no one more zealous than a convert”. </p>

<p>In your posts, you do come across as someone who has a serious issues with nerds or those perceived as such. </p>

<p>Possibly doing much to distance one’s own association with other nerds or more importantly…one’s former nerd serf back in HS and doing so by putting down nerds or using that term in the common pejorative sense in past posts?</p>

<p>Interesting…</p>

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<p>LF,</p>

<p>Funny you’re being defensive here considering you asked me back in post #1005 about notable females in STEM and when I answered with one of the noted Physicists of the 20th century alongside Marie Curie, you got on my case because “she’s too old/not current”.</p>

<p>Not only is that highly dismissive and rude, your entire premise that “younger gals” can only take inspiration from those who are younger scholars or are still alive is IMO, highly patronizing and gives too little credit to younger students who are interested and desire to find role models they could emulate in their fields of interest. </p>

<p>Especially those who have had enough achievements to be among the very best in a field more overwhelmingly dominated by males and in a time period when women were facing much more serious barriers from going into STEM research/academia or any careers altogether. </p>

1220

<p>Cobrat, perhaps you missed the gist. “Now will someone name the appropriate role models between Curie and Mollie? …Who are the noted examples in, say, the past 20 years. Or ten. Maybe some young. The sort hs gals might hear about and be inspired by? Ala Sally Ride. And then, are people bringing these women to kids’ attention?”</p>

<p>Beyond Wu, have you noted any? Maybe, maybe not. I find your talking down to a group of older, intelligent- and accomplished- folks to be “dismissive and rude,” as well as “patronizing.” </p>

<p>Why oh why? </p>