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Parents Forum
1221

<p>@pizzagirl, the assumptions I’ve made about you have to do with your tone in your posts. Your posts come of as quite harsh. It would be easier to understand your opinions and where you are coming from if you tried to adopt a more mild tone.</p>

<p>And no, as I have said, I don’t have anything against people who are conventionally popular or traditionally attractive. As I said, my sister and her friends fits this mold as well as being an excellent student. Her friends are great, they are incredibly friendly and sweet and have diverse interests.</p>

<p>There are also quite a few women in physics I know who are traditionally good looking, maintain their appearance, and dress nicely (I am one of them). Many of them are also a bit more outgoing and very sweet. It’s fun to hang out with them since they share my interests and simultaneously help me come out of my shell</p>

<p>A lot if people who are supposedly in the nerd category are also very arrogant and stuck up too. I know a lot of them too and they are just as bad if lot worse than the people like that in the previous category. They can be incredibly condescending and mean spirited and take their insecurities out on others. They have problems later in life when in many cases they discover they are not as superior as they think they are. Many are also slackers who get slaughtered in upper level classes.</p>

1222

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<p>Asked and answered correctly. You just had some issues with the answer. </p>

<p>Interesting, especially considering in most other venues with these types of question, the usual response is “thank you, cobrat” without criticizing the answer because you decide “too old/not current”. </p>

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<p>Why oh why, indeed…</p>

1223

<p>Read the whole context. Not just one sentence. Go back a few posts (and then forward) and see where we were. You want a thank you? Occasionally, I’d like to see an, “Oh, sorry.” And now, let’s get past this. </p>

<p>This hyper-focus only serves to show why social skills do matter to the colleges.<br>
Poeme made an interesting comment about some nerds (wish we could get past this term) who do have social issues. Do we, in some way, place these kids in their own admissions category, based on their potential genius? Or ask that they have some evidence of being able to contribute, outside the classrooms and labs? Especially considering that we tend to speak of colleges with huge numbers of highly qualified kids applying, fierce competition from other kids with superb academics, as well as other attributes beneficial to the group?</p>

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<p>I think it’s the question of potential versus current performance. When colleges tend to emphasize students high school extracurriculars like competing at Intel, it makes you think that they may miss students who have long term potential but haven’t come out of their shell yet. I guess it’s hard to tell who these people will be besides reading their essays. The teacher recommendations may not tell the whole story for these reasons since many of these types of students may not connect as well to their high school teachers.</p>

<p>I was very rigid and judgmental in high school until the end of senior year. I fully realized how unhappy I was and decided I needed to change. I realized that intelligence alone can’t fulfill you. I made friends based on who was in my classes wasn’t me and I realized that hadn’t been the right decision. I had overlooked a lot of people who would have been much more kind and supportive to me. That was the beginning of my self awareness that allowed me to blossom in college. I became much more open in many ways and could communicate more effectively. </p>

<p>Compared to freshman orientation where I was a nervous wreck, making friends comes naturally now I’m about to start grad school. It’s partially because of the environment but also because I’ve grown a lot.</p>

1225

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<p>Things are competitive enough that it’s not reasonable for elite colleges to take people who have potential but are so painfully shy they aren’t considered stars in the classroom.</p>

<p>Interestingly, you’ve just illustrated that qualifications considered purely academic also indicate social skills, which is why it’s inappropriate to think that those held in high esteem by their teachers don’t have social skills. </p>

<p>Leadership and social skills may be indicated by teacher’s recs plus whether they are elected by their peers to positions of leadership. For instance, if someone writes for the newspaper and they become Editor in Chief, some leadership/social skills is required to gain that position. </p>

<p>However, these community service projects don’t require much social skills at all. I guess it requires some organizational ability and you can’t be so shy that you won’t interact with people, but you can be genuinely disliked by your peers and still pull something like this off. Unfortunately, it seems these are the coup de gras of the successful mainstream ivy league candidate. If you want to give people some credit for doing something like this, fine, but the “value added” to the candidate’s package should be limited. </p>

<p>Leadership doesn’t exist in a vacuum. In one’s career, it is generally a product of being good at something, a strong work ethic, plus being a relatively normal person and carrying yourself well. If you spend too much time organizing activities in your spare time, you risk jeopardizing that first asset, which ironically undermines your future leadership potential or limits it to fields where those skills aren’t an asset. </p>

1226

<p>"
Possibly doing much to distance one’s own association with other nerds or more importantly…one’s former nerd serf back in HS and doing so by putting down nerds or using that term in the common pejorative sense in past posts?"</p>

<p>I’m not distancing myself from what I was or what I am at all. </p>

<p>*You’re the one who seems to give people a pass to stereotype. There is no poster on CC who stereotypes more about rich people / suburbanites / people who care about their appearance / people who engage in Greek life than you and your ilk. You think they’re silly, shallow, superficial, don’t have the time of day for them, can’t possibly be intelligent and for some ungodly reason known only to you, think it’s funny to raid their parties. Somehow you think that’s acceptable to stereotype that way. Why is that? </p>

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<p>@collegealum314, what I was saying was that I didn’t connect with my high school teachers because I was not as social as other people. The kids who among the most popular among the English teachers for example were the ones involved in things like the newspaper. There was one girl I remember who was like this. She hit a nerve with me because she was a very mean and bitter girl who was abrasive and spoke her mind to the point of being condescending and insulting. However, for some reason she was more liked by this certain English teacher I didn’t connect with and with the other students. It was like she got a free pass to behave like that because she conformed to expectations. I did not conform, I just did my own thing in science Olympiad (was not officially a leader, just a member of the team), and played in orchestra. I was not socially involved because of my deep fear of rejection. I tried to be nice to people and make small talk, but by the end of senior year I became very resentful because I didn’t see results. Time after time, I was the one who didn’t get invited to the party or asked to the dance, so I just gave up.</p>

<p>When I got to college and became better socially and more confident, oddly enough, it seems people saw me in completely different light. I think people see me now as kind of whimsical and amusing instead of odd, they seem to find me interesting to talk to, especially women a few years older I meet at parties. One of my college friends described me as, very sweet, a bit shy, and kind of spacey. </p>

<p>So maybe it’s a lot to ask that admissions try to look carefully into the future. I guess it didn’t matter to me anyway as now it seems I am where I belong and I had a great time along the way.</p>

1228

<p>I am glad things have worked out for you, Poeme. It would not surprise me that an English teacher would be more inclined to write a good recommendation for someone who was good in their English class and was involved with something like the newspaper. Most kids have an opportunity to get recommendations from teachers that teach in subjects that they enjoy and feel they are good at. For you, it may have been a science or music teacher. But you yourself say, you had no leadership positions even in those areas. Why would a college want to take a student who was admittedly bitter and resentful and not socially involved when there are plenty of kids who are not like that and had great high school careers. Even my younger kid, who was a captain of his athletic team also was first chair in his orchestra section. He was more at home with sports than orchestra but was able to get out of his comfort zone to do well in orchestra, I’m very glad to hear you feel you are where you belong and had a great time along the way. And by the way, even kids that seem “popular” in high school are not immune to the typical teenage problems,anxiety and angst.</p>

1229

<p>Back to the original thread topic (hah!): </p>

<p>I am thinking about a hypothetical younger version of myself, whom I will call QMC (not a family member). QMC is planning to write a college admissions essay–and if applying to college this year, QMC has probably already drafted, but not finalized one.</p>

<p>Highly theoretical, QMC enjoys complexity. Mulling on any given observation, QMC is likely to advance multiple hypotheses, with varying degrees of probability. QMC is self-aware enough to know that quite a few people do not like this. Yet, counterbalancing that, QMC does not like it when people want to “cut to the chase,” because QMC believes that statements of opinions should be backed by rationales, and QMC would <em>really</em> like it if the rationales were presented in “proof” format. Nonetheless, QMC is not completely nerdy. QMC dislikes imperatives.</p>

<p>What I wonder is: Can anyone suggest a way that QMC can remain authentic to QMC-self, while still writing an admissions essay that would appeal to lookingforward? I would appreciate it if we could take “show, don’t tell” as a given.</p>

1230

<p>Yeah, that’s sort of what I thought. QMC is out of luck, right?</p>

1231

<p>Poeme, your post makes a lot of sense to me.</p>

<p>And, just from my little corner, you nailed it Q, 'splains a lot.</p>

<p>Just between us, thing is- what “we” like, well, how do we know it’s [pick a word] ok or right or worthy or a model or just plum self-indulgent or worse, unaware? How do we, especially when we’re still forming, know if this difference should be celebrated or edited? And when we have to conform- arrive on time, allow for discussions and other people’s desires and produce per some sort of standards, what do we do? We either adapt to the needs or find the place where these differences can be effective and justly recognized. You found your way, I found mine. </p>

<p>The problem, something I’ve pondered forever, is that the world does revolve around some idea of “normal.” And on CC, where the topic is admissions, unfortunately, one has to recognize the parameters those others are looking for. </p>

<p>For now- and I hope you expand on the question- I’ll just say, when you want what the man has to give, you often have to offer in trade what he wants. It’s true in so many respects, in life. </p>

1232

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<p>Do I have it wrong that you applied ED to Penn, graduated from there, will be attending a top 5 graduate schools in your chosen area of STEM?</p>

<p>Did Penn make a bad decision with you or it is that you just don’t think they made the right decisions in admitting who were your supposed classmates at Penn?</p>

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<p><a href=“https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzN2z6MM_G4”>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzN2z6MM_G4&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>QMC is 17, and has no idea what “the man” wants. (No innuendo intended.)<br>
QMC has read “100 Essays That Worked” and disliked almost all of them. The one about the uniform struck QMC as authentic to a 17-year-old, but the admissions people dumped on it.
QMC thinks that the essays that supposedly incorporate quantum mechanics cleverly are not very good, because they don’t show much understanding of the physics involved. They are “cute,” rather than deep. But that seems to sell.
QMC is giving up and heading for Chicago.</p>

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<p>I dislike them, too . In tandem with Peome’s post, this is actually a thought provoking question. Of course, QMC could, uh, read the colleges’ web sites for what they look for- but that would work better today, when more are actually posting that, ha. Otoh, if it relates to the past, things were different then.<br>
You now what we say on CC: there’s always cc. JK. </p>

1236

<p>In the past, QM had no idea about Chicago, which would have been a great fit, almost certainly. QM wanted to go to Caltech, beginning in 7th grade. But they did not admit women at that time, nor for a number of years afterward. </p>

<p>Yet the major difference in the past (long past) was the difference in the financial aid landscape. AnIvy, which admitted QM, put together a financial aid package that, despite the scholarship component, left QM owing more that her father made in a year. (I can’t recall now whether that was for all 4 years, or just for 1 year.) AnIvy also projected that QM could earn more in the summer than her father made during the summer. QM was very fortunate in her choice of college (please see earlier post on influences on me). Given everything QM has learned about Caltech in the interim (some of it on this thread), QM is 99.78% certain that she was much better off where she went than she would have been at Caltech. </p>

<p>Back to the present, and QMC. QMC has realized that colleges are not looking for essays that are “highly intellectual.” But QMC does not understand what would be viewed as “highly intellectual.” QMC doubts that any 17-year-old could actually write a “highly intellectual” statement. QMC is not a pseudo-intellectual poseur.</p>

<p>QMC is comparatively modest, among 17-year-olds. This makes it somewhat challenging for QMC to detect QMC’s own leadership. If QMC is female, perhaps QMC has run for class president, with an agenda to do something–and lost–and perhaps one of QMC’s closest friends has told her that she voted for a “boy” instead of QMC, because she thought “the class president should be a boy.” In the New York Times, I have read about this issue persisting at one of the elite prep schools (within the past 3 years or so).</p>

<p>Perhaps QMC has a clue that a “slice of life” picture of working with 4-year-olds in Head Start might complement the application package, yet is uncertain how to present this.</p>

<p>When QMC decided to “give up” and go to Chicago, QMC had in mind “giving up” on trying to write an essay that would please people that QMC does not understand, at heart. QMC is not sure how much Chicago has changed since they adopted the Common App, but it seems probable that it is still well suited to QMC. Maybe the question that QMC should be asking is where QMC would fit well.</p>

<p>Luckily, QMC has no interest in engineering, and will not be applying to MIT.</p>

1237

<p>Am I correct the essay should be original but not too original? And it has to be written for a particular audience: the admissions committee. QMC’s essay will go over their heads. They aren’t going to get the jokes. It’s too high-falutin and potentially aggravating. To satisfy “the man” QMC has to show an inauthentic self. QMC has the ability, if not the interest, to create the essay the admissions committee wants, but in doing so sort of subverts the process since the essay isn’t authentic. </p>

<p>Maybe QMC takes time out from figuring out how to write a successful inauthentic essay to ponder the morality and ethics of the task at hand. QMC tries to decide how an essay describing such an ethical conundrum will go over. QMC shows that essay to her parents. The response is mixed but ultimately negative. If the purpose of the essay is to favorably impress an admissions committee, this isn’t going to work. Maybe QMC decides the inauthentic essay serves a higher purpose?</p>

<p>oh yeah- one of my kids got in with the inauthentic essay. Admissions liked it, or so we heard. Essay had nothing to do with kid, other than to demonstrate the hoop jumping ability. </p>

<p>ETA
adding:
cross-posted. Okay, maybe QMC doesn’t see all the hoops. I’m back on topic. : )</p>

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<p>QMC is overthinking things. </p>

1239

<p>QMC’s nature is to overthink things. So how to make that a feature not a bug?</p>

<p>My older son started off his college essay with the results of a program that took all the best sample essays he could find on the web and combined them. After a short paragraph of gibberish he wrote an essay about how he’d rather write a program than an essay. It didn’t work everywhere, but some admissions committees thought it was good enough and presumably got his sense of humor which is one of his best points. (He’s not too user friendly otherwise.)</p>

<p>I think QMC was and is smart enough to figure out what will work, when she cares enough. She certainly can keep a conversation on a message board going for a long time!</p>

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<p>^lol</p>