55k for washu or 0k for w&l?

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I was very fortunate to receive great merit scholarships this cycle! My best offers are the following:

55k/yr washu (signature scholars program; scholar designation, events, networking)

-10k/yr w&l (johnson scholar; no perks other than substantial $$ including 10k summer grant)

To be clear, my parents can afford washu. We are very fortunate to; however, my main concern is whether or not it’s worth that much, though i’m lucky to have gotten merit at all.

Both programs offer me the option of a BS in CS with a potential double major in philosophy. Both are very flexible in changing majors, but my understanding is that washu has a better chance of placing me well bc of the network, should i choose to change majors.

Also, the cs w&l professors told me straight up that if i wanted to do substantial research to go elsewhere :skull:

The question of whether washu is “worth it” comes down to the experience for me. W&l is both very greek heavy and very white. I value diversity (i’m lgbtq+ and poc) and im not much of a sorority person. I also got questionable vibes from many current students at the flyin event i did and the scholarship weekend. Meanwhile, washu is decently diverse, and the cohort i was admitted to seems to be predominantly poc nerds like me. They also have an incredible slam poetry team, while w&l’s literary presence is more up and coming (though the shenadoah lit mag is very cool). Washu seems more artsy and a melting pot and is located near a city, while w&l is isolated, small, and yknow like i mentioned less diverse and more conservative. I don’t want to spend 4 yrs in a place i hate just because it’s free, but i also dont want to spend over 200k on an experience i could get for less.

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I have to think you misheard about research. You can do research at any school - WUSTL, W&L, or Central Washington - to put in another Washington.

The department itself says: Research areas included robotics, parallel computing, machine learning, security and privacy, human-computer interaction, and software engineering. The department also has strong interdisciplinary ties to such areas as data science, neuroscience, biology, chemistry, earth and environmental geoscience, mathematics, and digital humanities.

Why not reach out to a student ambassador in the department and ask - but I’m guessing you mis interpreted.

Unless your last name is Bezos or Gates or you don’t want to be at a small school in a small town, there is nothing to debate here.

Both schools are phenomenal but the level of support topped with the Johnson at W&L makes this a no brainer.

btw - yes, WUSTL is higher ranked for CS - but it’s very low ranked - so if CS were your goal, these are two interesting schools making the list anyway.

Congrats on such wonderful opportunities - but the Johnson, short of a substitute (like the Morehead Cain at UNC) - there’s just no way it should be turned down.

IMHO - of course.

One last thing - you might ask for career data. It looks like W&L had 9 CS grads - so it’s a small department - which could be good - or could be trouble career wise. Ask where they are hired and what salaries.

WUSTL is showing median and mean salaries of $105K in CS. Fine school - but $220K+ better than W&L from an ROI POV. Not in any scenario I could imagine.

But - it’s your families money and they are free to spend how they want.

Note - with CS - you’ll read on here - a N Georgia grad at google, I know a UTC grad just hired big money at Oracle and my nephew majored in Poli Sci at Arizona and works for a big 7 in NYC - why? He self studied and passed the test required to be hired. The point - you can make it from ANYWHERE. So you’ll be fine at W&L.

Best of luck.

Alumni Outcomes Six Months After Graduation : Washington and Lee University

WashU Career Outcomes – Center for Career Engagement | Washington University in St. Louis

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Congrats on wonderful acceptances!

Paging @DramaMama2021 to give some input about W&L

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Fantastic results!

To the longtime posters here trying to be helpful- let’s stop gaslighting teenagers who are worried about a diverse student body, their sexual orientation, etc. OK? We can do that.

OP- ask your admissions rep to speak with someone at one of the LBGTQ organizations on both campuses to get a current read- right now- on their actual experiences. Not someone’s third hand “I know a Gay kid and he says it’s fine” anecdote. Ask the same rep to put you in touch with a student with the same/similar ethnic/racial identity, preferably an upperclassman, so they can talk to you about their experience.

Only you can decide what you are comfortable with and what crosses a line. But before you get lost looking at employment data and salaries and all that- figure out if campus life is going to be comfortable and fun for you.

Good luck!!!

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I’m having a deja vu flashback to some posts about diversity and W&L in the last few years, please search the CC archives. Was there an article written by a POC that was discussed on here at length? Was it the discussion of renaming buildings and staunch opposition? Anyone remember?

Based on my fuzzy memory, and life, my vote is pay the money for WashU and trust your gut on finding your people. Good luck!

Edit to add, re-read your post, please run to WashU with your parents’ checkbook!

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If possible, visit both for admitted student days. Which one feels like the right place for you? Go there.

Don’t let anyone else make up your mind for you. While it’s ok to come here and solicit opinions, that’s all they are - opinions of complete strangers who do not know you.

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Reminder that we all know a website called College Confidential is going to be full of strangers. Let’s move on from discussing that.

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At WLU, there were proposals about renaming the school, among other things.

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All things being equal, you could easily decide to go to the place that’s giving you a much less pricey education. But this is a case where I don’t believe all things are equal. The schools are very different and you a lucky enough to be able to weigh your options.

Wash U seems to offer you so much more of what you are after and sometimes the “fit” is more important (if you can swing it).

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It seems you much prefer WashU. If it is affordable for your family, go for it!

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It looks like you significantly prefer the social scene of WUStL over WLU. However, be aware that WUStL is located in an LGBT-unfriendly state as far as state laws and policies go: Movement Advancement Project | Snapshot: LGBTQ Equality by State (for Missouri, see Movement Advancement Project | State Profiles ). How much that matters to you is up to you, but at least be aware of such conditions beforehand.

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When surveyed by Princeton Review, students at Wash U St Louis gave their school some of the highest rankings of the “390 best colleges” surveyed for their college guide in several areas related to your decision. The number below indicates where they ranked in comparison to the other colleges surveyed.

#11 - friendliest students
#11 - best quality of life
#12 - LGBTQ friendly
#16 - lots of race/class interaction

Washington & Lee’s survey results were not among the highest in any category, positive or negative.

WUSTL survey results were very high in a number of other categories:

#2 - best campus food
#2 - best college dorms
#3 - great financial aid (student satisfaction)
#5 - top 50 for entrepreneurship
#6 - best-run colleges
#8 - most beautiful campus
#9 - everyone plays intramural sports
#9 - these students love these colleges
#14 - best college library
#15 - best science lab facilities
#17 - best athletic facilities
#17 - top 20 best for financial aid (private colleges)
#21 - green matters: everyone cares about conservation
#21 - most active student government
#22 - students most engaged in community service
#23 - students study the most
#37 - top 50 best value schools (private colleges)

On the other hand, the W&L Johnson scholarship makes them far and away the better deal financially at a school with very good academics. I wonder if you and your parents can negotiate with WUSTL for a better financial package, using the W&L offer as leverage.

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Seriously what can a school do more to attract a student like you?
W&L knows they are not the most diverse place, and here they are putting their money where their mouth is. Offering you full-ride if you are willing to fight the fight and force their students AND faculty to accept diversity as a fact of life.

  • Undergrad research is an over-blown marketing ploy anywhere. How deep can any undergrad research be when you lack the Math (and other tools) skills, as well as the time to do it while fitting 16 credit hours to graduate with a double major? Some of it is nice, but you’re not getting your masters yet.
  • How do you know that the professor was not trying to “ease” you out, because he has his own issues?
  • You re not into Greek life, then find other clubs and orgs to join. Or start your own? That’s the kind of initiative they are hoping you will take. Club sports by any chance?

Why don’t you consider joining a top ranked school for free to be your “volunteering” and community service effort? If you can’t stand it in a couple of years, you can always transfer elsewhere. Any school would accept their credits.

There are lots of Valedictorians who got rejected, or got full-pay acceptances to W&L, and they would give an arm and leg to be in your place. You owe it to yourself - and to the entire American society that is trying to progress and drop our ugly past - to at least put up a good fight here. Believe me, you’ll find supporters everywhere you go, as well as detractors. Good training needed for your career.

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I live an hour from WandL. Kid 1 is at Swat and Kid 2 is going to Grinnell in the fall. Between them they applied to most of the top 30 LACs. Neither applied to WandL. It is very conservative. My 2 cents.

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I have not chimed in to this thread because I don’t know WashU, and also finding the best fit is important, and that’s something only the OP can know. Just like Swarthmore and Grinnell, W&L will not be a good fit for every student. However there are a number of misconceptions about the school. At this point the school is just as diverse, if not more diverse than schools like Bates and Oberlin, which have more liberal reputations. There is zero need to persuade the faculty or the students of the virtues of diversity. The school is taking substantive steps to address it’s racist history and is not merely making superficial changes.

I believe students of all political persuasions would feel comfortable on W&L’s campus.

I would say both schools are blue dots in seas of red. I grew up in Missouri, and it most certainly is the buckle of the Bible Belt.

The one area that I would flag for the OP is the openness to LGBTQ students. There is openness, and acceptance but it is not the same as at liberal northeastern schools. So yes, there are gay members of my son’s fraternity, and there’s an annual Drag Ball, and there’s special interest housing for LGBTQ students, but it isn’t the same as, say, Williams. I have no idea what WashU is like on this issue.

If W&L is not a fit, then it’s not a fit – don’t go! Presumably, though, you thought it might be a good fit or you wouldn’t have applied and gone through the Johnson selection process. So just make sure you are making a well thought out decision.

Finally, I leave you with this:

Good luck with your decision, those are both excellent schools.

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I’d suggest that you go to WashU.

  1. You’ve made it clear you can afford WashU.
  2. You didn’t get a good vibe at W&L after visiting and speaking to students and staff.
  3. You were actually advised by a W&L professor to go elsewhere for the research experience you want.
  4. You don’t like the W&L location relative to WashU.

Sounds like you’d hate being at W&L. Who wants that? Not you. Not W&L. Not your W&L classmates.

Give the Johnson money to someone else who actually needs it and/or wants to attend W&L. I’m confident that it won’t go to waste.

Good luck. Both are excellent schools. You should be proud of your accomplishments.

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Thank you everyone for your responses. I’d like to add a few things that I forgot to add in my original post that may change the conversation a bit:
For those confused on my lack of typical CS schools listed: my long-term plan is to work in patent law, which’d require a BS in CS and for me to take the patent bar. Thus, even though to me, washu would be ideal in terms of social life and school environment, i don’t know if i should be saving that money for law school. I’m also concerned about Trump’s recent rulings and how they could impact funding sources for washu (one of the pillars of my scholar program is diversity and is comprised mostly of POC)
On the financials:
My dad earns most of the money for my family. agi is high but he works on commission. ““unfortunately”” he made an unusually good income in 2023, hence no chance of FA this yr. We visited washu financial aid office, but the advisor said given my 34k merit offer i’m unlikely to get anything that exceeds that amount (the merit subtracts from demonstrated need). we’re going to appeal and see where it goes-- we have multiple eligible avenues.
My mom visited with me for admitted students day. she loves washu and thinks it’s worth it for me to go, fwiw. But in the end, it’s my dad’s money; he likes the school, but neither of them have been to w&l. their admitted students day is april 28th (so close to decision day!!), so maybe i’ll take them if we’re still deciding up to that point.
another convenient (i.e. complicating) factor is that i was recently interviewed for pitt’s full tuition scholarship. they’d give me the honors college environment, a top ranked philosophy department, and a nice school culture located near a city. results come out in a week and a half and if i get it that’ll be something else to consider and visit (though they have no admitted students day for the month of april, strangely). will probably make a new post if that ends up being an option.
throughout this whole process i’ve kind of been haunted by a quote from someone on my first post on here: “Lots of great options; the worry is that you have a decent chance of getting into schools that would tempt you to make a bigger financial commitment than what seems wise.” Given my aspirations, is washu one such commitment?

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Do they / you have another $300k for law school?

If not, there’s $200k plus right there by not going to WUSTL.

Pitt at least gives you that urban environment if you get full tuition. You’ll have to spend but much less. I would not factor in the philosophy ranking. It’s not relevant to anything - ie it doesn’t set one school apart from another. All three and any other in America can get you into a top law school. Rather, you can get you into a top law school. But if you earn the scholarship and love the school - then great.

You’ve really scored. You got into a top school, another great school, and then yet another that wants to pay you to go.

Where is the $10k cost of W&L calculated from?

Congrats - you have what I’d say is a nice problem to have !!

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The money issue is so personal in situations like this. I don’t think a family should cripple itself with massive debt for college, but if your family can pay the difference mostly out of cash flow and/or savings, then I do think it becomes a matter of priorities. And different families in that position have different priorities.

I do think based on what you said you would likely not be disappointed with WashU. It does sound like the sort of college you are looking for. I do wish for you that you maybe had a more affordable option that was closer to that.

And speaking of which, the Chancellor’s at Pitt could be very tempting too. I do think in most of the ways you were discussing, it is closer to WashU than W&L. And while it isn’t a super robust Honors programs, there are some solid perks that help ease the transition to a large (although far from the largest) public university, not least a nice housing assignment and priority registration. Then once you get into the more advanced classes, I also think you would be pretty happy with Pitt. And it is a fun city.

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