A Big Dilemma

Colleges & Universities Columbia University
1

<p>Before I start, I’m just gonna warn everyone that I have a habit of being verbose, and this post is no exception.</p>

<p>So, I have a bit of a dilemma. Early decision application deadlines are coming up in two weeks, and although I’ve filled out both apps, I need to decide which one I’m actually going to submit. Right now I’m undecided between NYU and, well, Columbia. </p>

<p>The question isn’t whether or not I have a chance at either of these schools. Honestly, there’s always a chance, regardless of how slim. In addition, applying ED increases that chance, even if only by a hair’s width. And while I have had people tell me to use my early decision application to go for a reach school, I also want to be realistic about it–I don’t want to throw away a perfectly good early decision application on a school that I had exactly a hair’s width of getting into. I want to reach for the clouds, not the moon. </p>

<p>Both schools are reaches for me. My standardized test scores might hurt me more than they help. I have a 2030 SAT I score and a 30 ACT score. I’m retaking the ACTs this month and took my subject tests on the 6th, so those results are still precariously up in the air. My grades are good, not stellar; I have a 4.141 and my senior course load is as follows: Advanced Creative Writing, Advanced Photography, AP Calc AB, AP English Literature, AP US Gov/Politics, Global Literature, AP Spanish V, and Contemporary Literature. </p>

<p>I can’t call my EC’s outstanding either, not by any stretch of the word. I haven’t saved a third world country from starvation; nothing even close, in fact. But all of my EC’s/achievements have a definitive pattern: Creative Writing Club, published three times in the school Lit Mag, publish my own movie reviews online, was nominated for the NCTE Achievement in Writing awards last year, superior rating at Ohio music contest in the categories of solo and ensemble (piano and clarinet, respectively), played piano for 11 years, founded and am president of Amnesty International Club at my school, dedicated an entire year to the theme of raising awareness and keeping up awareness of the genocide in Darfur, Politics Debate Club, contributor to the school newspaper, nominated to participate in Peope to People leadership forum in the Theater and Arts. This last was probably my proudest achievement. I spent ten days on the Columbia campus this past summer and learned first hand all about the world of film and theater in NYC. Basically, what I would be saying to both colleges would be that I go crazy over the arts and hot-blooded over politics, and that I have absolutely no talent or interest in science or math.</p>

<p>If I have a hook, it’s simply my determination to dedicate the rest of my life to the arts. I want to write for a living, and frequently have visions of fulfilling the bohemian life in New York City, although I suspect the reality will be much less romantic and much more penny-pinching. Moreover, I want to write for film for a living. So naturally, NYU and Columbia are my dream schools. </p>

<p>I am not spectactular academically, and this is what holds me back from applying ED to Columbia. I feel like, even if I have enormous passion and considerable skill in creative writing, that’s only good enough if I’m top-notch in every other aspect of the student as well–that’s what is expected and seen of Columbia students, isn’t it? I want to attend Columbia almost as much I want to spend the rest of my life around writers and filmmakers, but imagine how devastating it would be if I fettered away my ED on a school I had a laughably small chance of being admitted into, and on top of that also got rejected to NYU. I want to make a smart choice here. </p>

<p>Right now, when I apply to either of these schools, I am crossing my fingers on my ability to write. I can’t tell you how thrilled I was when I saw that Columbia’s application had sections on your favorite films and books, because these are the things I already spend most of my everyday life talking about. I feel like I might be able to stand out on these often underestimated portions of the application…but then again, we’re all biased when it comes to ourselves. In truth, my passion might not shine through like I need it to on a paper application. Right now, when I apply to either of these schools, I would almost solely be relying on my essay to blow the admissions officers away. Something that scares me, because while the difference between a good essay and a terrible essay may be obvious, the difference between a good essay and a mindblowing one is quite subjective. Another thing that holds me back is the fact that I know I’m no unique snowflake. I’m well aware that plenty of people wanting to go to Columbia are aspiring artists like myself, well aware that there are plenty of people who profess their undying loyalty to the craft. </p>

<p>So I’m at a standstill. There’s a tug-o-war in my mind, except both sides are equally strong and unrelenting. What do you think? Is it a bit stupid and unrealistic to apply early to Columbia, and should I simply reinforce my chances at NYU by applying early there? Or is the risk of applying to Columbia worth it? I know what I want the answer to be, but I urge you to refrain from simply telling me what I want to hear.</p>

2

<p>

</p>

<p>I tried to read the first two and last paragraphs to find something helpful to say without reading this diatribe, but really can’t. Why don’t you spare us all and give us the Cliff’s Notes version?</p>

3

<p>I agree. I tried reading your post but you lost my interest after the first two lines. Your writing needs refinement.</p>

4

<p>^^Oh, come on, just read it. (:</p>

<p>I can’t give you any definite advice, but I would say that you need gauge how much you want to go to Columbia versus NYU. If there isn’t a significant difference, I would say apply to NYU. I’m no authority, but I think that your stats may not be spectacular for Columbia, but if your desire to attend Columbia is greatly in excess of your desire to attend NYU, I would say you should go ahead and apply and see what happens. You might regret not applying in the future. Good Luck!</p>

5

<p>Hm, well I read past line 2. Anyways, I think you might actually have a solid chance at Columbia (or nearly as solid as a lot of really strong candidates). Getting your ACT up a few points might definitely make a difference, but remember that standardized tests aren’t everything, especially at Columbia. As long as you’re within a given range, nothing will really help or hurt you (and you’re almost in that range…one SAT or ACT makeup should make the difference). </p>

<p>I really dig the extra currics/interests–and no, you’re not super-typical or anything. Your grades are fine. Your arts passion should be the crux of the app (as it sounds like you’re intending to do–“why columbia,” movies/books, etc)</p>

<p>I definitely suggest Columbia ED–if only for the fact that I am quite confident you’ll get into NYU with or without early admission. Give ED a chance!</p>

6

<p>I actually read the post, your reasoning is more or less on target i think, the dilemma you have in reasonable, there really isn’t a clear cut answer to it, you’ll probably get in ED NYU and you probably won’t at columbia, because there are several other applicants like you who are better qualified in terms of grades and test scores. it’s well and good to say you are passionate about the arts, and you have demonstrated involvement, but i don’t see some ‘smack me across the face’ talent demonstrated is there any? you need passion and achievement.</p>

<p>i think you can get in columbia ED (small chance) and so it’s worth applying ED, you should get in to NYU RD. there’s no need to be politically correct - NYU is significantly easier to get into. you’ll probably end up in NYU, but you’ll also probably regret not applying ED to columbia if you do ED NYU.</p>

7

<p>You self-incriminated yourself from the word go, and you wonder why people are treating your writing (and the substance of your question) in this way. There are better ways to getting your way than publicly belittling yourself in some vain attempt to be humble or lowly. </p>

<p>No-one needs a disclaimer here.</p>

8

<p>vesalvay, that was incredibly rude.</p>

9

<p>You didnt give unweighted overall GPA, class rank, or even a little blurb about how competitive your school is. Your test scores are mediocre at best for Columbia, even CC. The people in CC that do get in with 2000’s tend to at least try to take a wide range of classes both in the humanities and the sciences.</p>

<p>In addition, have you visited either? I feel that you would fit in much better at NYU which is, by far, a more “artsier” student body.</p>

<p>Honestly, ED is binding and a waste if you don’t get in from it. Apply to whichever you want but I think ED to Columbia would not suite you well.</p>

10

<p>I’m going to agree with Skraylor. I think you would be better suited at NYU. I suggest you look into the course offerings in your areas of interest at each school before you make a decision. Don’t forget that Columbia’s core makes up a substantial percentage of your credits. I’m also not so sure that Columbia is particularly known for its film and creative writing majors.</p>

11

<p>

</p>

<p>Oh, please. Are you really that stupid, or is this some kind of unfunny joke? What kind of backwards logic do you use when you construe honesty as “public belittling”? It’s in my best interest to tell it like it is, sugar-coating my attributes doesn’t help me here, genius. But maybe I should be flattered, since you seem to be implying that I’m more achieved than what I’ve owned up to. Thanks for that. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Yea, my bad. It boils down to this: want to apply ED to Columbia. Don’t want to throw away ED on unattainable school. Stats are meh but am confident in using clear voice in application. Good shot at ED acceptance or just shoot for NYU? Fundamentally another chance me post. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Unweighted is 3.9. School doesn’t rank. School is moderately competitive, last year a few seniors went to Ivies. I opted out of a science this year so I could take two more lit classes; I’ve taken almost all the humanities-related course offered at my school, excluding the performing arts, so don’t know what I could have done about that.</p>

<p>

True, that seems fair to say. I’ve visited both. I loved both but liked Columbia better, maybe because I actually slept in the dorms for a week and got a better feel of the school than NYU.</p>

<p>Confidentialcoll, my thoughts echo yours exactly. If I end up applying it’ll be hard to demonstrate any talent I have. </p>

<p>I realize the question was a little futile to begin with, but that’s the nature of these kinds of posts, I guess. Anyway, thanks to everyone who replied.</p>

12

<p>You should be happy Meursault. You posted on CC. There was a large crowd of spectators the day of your figurative execution, greeting you with cries of hate! Oh, and do NYU.</p>

13

<p>

</p>

<p>No flame wars. I am appalled at the way shraf was treated by CC and I have little tolerance for stupidity right now. Vesalvay knows what I’m talking about so just let it go. Same goes for OP.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Providing reasons for why you will not be seen as a “well-rounded” student doesn’t make any difference. The fact is that Columbia has an obsession with “well-roundedness” and you just dont fit the profile. Yea there’s a chance you could get in but you simply dont have the necessary background and that will only hurt you.</p>

<p>Final advice: dont waste the ED on Columbia. If you want to still apply RD, go for it but dont do so and get rejected and then think that “oh if only I had applied ED i would have gotten in!”</p>

14

<p>Stupidity? On whose part? Okay. Let me lay this out. His name is Meursault. As in Meursault from Camus’ The Stranger, who, at the end of the book, looks forward to his execution, hoping that a large crowd of spectators will greet him with cries of hate. It’s an allusion. To a book. By. Never mind.</p>

15

<p>“I’m also not so sure that Columbia is particularly known for its film and creative writing majors.”</p>

<p>Perhaps so, I’m certainly not sure either. However regarding creative writing at least, there are some indicators that suggest at least the potential that offerings available to Columbia students could actually be pretty strong; interested candidates might do well to investigate further.</p>

<p>Columbia’s creative writing program is among those cited in Rugg’s Recommendations on the Colleges, which is supposed to mean that the surveyed students at that college said it was considered a strong department there.</p>

<p>Moreover, Columbia students have cross-enrollment privileges at Barnard, where the creative writing department is highly regarded. I would assume(but do not know for a fact)that these courses would be available too.</p>

<p>Columbia’s graduate creative writing program is ranked 4th by U.S. News. It is not inconceivable that there could be some spillover effect to the undergraduate program.</p>

<p>So I’m certainly not taking issue with anything, just suggesting that there may be some reasons to investigate further, rather than dismissing, if this is an area of interest.</p>

16

<p>I disagree with both Skraylor’s statement about Columbia’s obsession with well-roundedness and the argument that the OP isn’t well-rounded enough.</p>

<p>If you read the FAQ section on Columbia’s website about what courses are recommended as high school preparation, it says something quite interesting. Although it lists the standard 3 or 4 years for core academic subjects, it also says that </p>

<p>"Modifying the preparatory program just outlined - by taking more work in some subjects and less in others - is not only acceptable but may be desirable in individual cases. The vast majority of successful applicants to the College have taken five academic courses per term for all four years of secondary/high school. "</p>

<p>Obviously there needs to be rigor in the HS preparation–and the OP seems to have that. There is not a thing wrong with taking only 3 years of science and then picking up other high level courses in areas of greater interest. The OP is taking AP AB Calc after all, so is no slouch in math. </p>

<p>Does this mean there’s a good chance of admission? Who the heck knows. But I wouldn’t make the decision on the assumption that your choice of academic classes sinks you.</p>

17

<p>Columbia’s obsessed with well-roundedness? Really? I think they prefer interesting people–if these souls happen to be well-rounded (such a thing is not impossible), then cheers. I’ve never volunteered a day in my life, got mediocre grades, and was suspended a few times. Oh, and I’m poor and white and from a big city that’s over-represented here. But I was really focused and achieved notoriety in certain extra-curricular activities (not all lurid). Specialization trumps well-roundedness. I have proved this with science. :::Blows raspberry:::</p>

18

<p>Ergh…I had only four academic classes (Physics, H Chem, H English, H Math-the others were Theatre and xc) during one semester of freshman year…am I completly killed? (I took 5 the other semester, and am taking 7 this year, and maybe 7 or 8 next year.)</p>

19

<p>Seeing as how some of you disagree with skraylor’s assertion, perhaps it has more merit going in the other direction.</p>

<p>Meaning well-rounded students are more likely to want Columbia. At least they have to be interested, and confident enough, to take the diversity of topics represented in the core curriculum.</p>

<p>My own daughter is pretty equally-capable academically, but she’s not interested in science. IIRC, she didn’t like the idea of having to take particular science courses not of her choosing. She’d rather choose from a bucket, as per traditional distribution requirements. People who prefer Columbia should want to take those courses. And, obviously, many do.</p>

<p>Whether Columbia prefers those same well-rounded people who like Columbia, or instead it prefers more “interesting” but possibly less well rounded people over them, y’all can fight that out I’ve no idea.</p>

20

<p>“Columbia prefers those same well-rounded people who like Columbia, or instead it prefers more “interesting” but possibly less well rounded people over them, y’all can fight that out I’ve no idea”</p>

<p>they take both, well rounded and interesting are pretty vague, they like both and they like to see excellence, ideally they take people who don’t lose out on the wellroundedness but display excellence in something. i assure you there isn’t a columbia mould. they want people who can cope with, excel in and contribute to the univ.</p>