<p>A refreshingly candid look at the freshmen experience at Princeton from The Daily Princetonian: </p>
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<p><a href=“http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2006/12/05/news/16852.shtml[/url]”>http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2006/12/05/news/16852.shtml</a></p>
<p>Great comment about the LaCoste shirts - (my D loves them, btw) and the preppie stereotype, which I assume from the tone of the article is not the case. </p>
<p>For me, the hallmark of a great school atmosphere for my S or D, and not limited to Princeton of course, is more or less summed up by the remark the student made that she “realized before coming that I wasn’t going to get the same grades as I did in high school,” she said. “But, with that, I knew that for the first time I was going to feel OK with expressing my intelligence. Here, everyone is smart and it’s OK to show it, and we all understand each other because of it. Before, in high school, it was almost embarrassing to show it.” Also, it is good to know that not everyone attending are super nerds or “A” student types.</p>
<p>Katonahmom, actually that was a statement I did not understand. At our son’s oh so typical high school the AP/honors students were quite serious and intelligent, Not all P’ton material by any stretch of the imagingation but good, hardworking students expected to be active participants in the classroom, not embarrassed about it. And because of our hs’s very rigouous AP policies, few students graduated with straight A’s. Our son’s gpa at Rensselaer, know for the “Tute Screw” and grade deflation, is higher than his hs uwgpa, and by a not insignificant margin.</p>
<p>Most of the other Princetonian comments seem spot on however. I would add that the per capita population of the scarf/sweater combo is significantly higher at P’ton that the collegiate population as a whole, a fact that can be attested to by anyone who has spent some time on campus.;-)</p>
<p>Originaloog: Interesting comments and far be it for me to question your personal depiction of your S’s “oh so typical high school” and their attitude and motivation not only to produce good work but to proudly exhibit their intellectual passions and enthusiasm. It would be fruitless and even counter-productive to attempt to give a stereotypical snapshot of American high schools - or of what makes a student “Princeton material” or even a profile of the typical high school experience for a typical Princetion student. Most likely because, these days one would be hard pressed to define a Princeton student in terms of stereotypes. By the same token, I am hard pressed to question either the veracity or sincerity of a Princeton freshman who was asked to express her personal impressions of the transition from high school student to Princeton freshman for the school newspaper - especially since, as this student points out “Not many people from my high school came here, so it made Princeton feel like something so far away and very surreal.”</p>
<p>Whether the students’ comments were “spot on” or not, Shirley Tilghman doesn’t pull her punches when it comes to her desire to dispell the Princeton stereotype - </p>
<p>"Access and admission</p>
<p>You mentioned your concern about access for lower-income students. With the University beginning to admit larger classes, will it use some of the extra spaces for these students?</p>
<p>We are doing that, but were not doing it in a numerical and quota way. Its been said many times that the admissions process at a university like Princeton is a highly individualized and nuanced process, where the wonderful admissions officers that [Dean of Admission] Janet Rapeleye has assembled look at the entire person. One of the things they look at is whether that individual has overcome some kind of adversity, and so it counts. But it doesnt count in that theyve got a number of slots and theyre going to fill those slots. I think thats a wrong way of going about it, the wrong way to think about it. </p>
<p>Soon after you became president, you said in an interview that you wished Princeton could begin to attract students with green hair. What did you mean, exactly, and do you regret saying it?</p>
<p>No, I dont regret saying it. What I was really referring to is that one of the powerful aspects of a Princeton education is the opportunity to live for four years with students who are utterly unlike yourself. Universities get typecast in high school all over the world now so that Princeton likes this kind of student, Harvard likes this kind of student, and so on. I think all of us believe that these stereotypes homogenize our student body in a way that admission offices have a hard time fighting against. And I think that having more students who werent the obvious Princeton candidates would be a very good thing for the undergraduate student body, because it would give students more opportunities to encounter students with different world views.</p>
<p>Has there been a change?</p>
<p>The faculty tell me yes, and they probably see it in the classroom. They are seeing a greater breadth of intellectual interests than what they were seeing in the past. I think we are getting a broader cross-section of students today, and we think thats good educationally.</p>
<p>There seems to be a sense that while in the past Princeton looked for very well-balanced students, now Princeton wants a well- balanced class, with different students who are exceptional in different things.</p>
<p>Both [former admission dean] Fred Hargadon and Janet Rapelye have said to me that this is a misrepresentation of what an admission department thinks about and what they face. Because the pool of applicants is so strong, you dont have to make these kinds of apparently distinctive choices. You can have someone who is an absolutely stellar mathematician, but is much more than that."</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/~paw/archive_new/PAW06-07/01-0927/features_tilghman.html[/url]”>http://www.princeton.edu/~paw/archive_new/PAW06-07/01-0927/features_tilghman.html</a></p>
<p>Btw, I noticed in the same edition of the “The Princetion Daily” that Macawber Books will be replaced by a branch of the U Store.</p>
<p>Originaloog, sorry, your statement brought a smile to me as well. Show thread to your son and ask him if, outside the AP/honors classroom, it was OK to be smart - my guess is no. My D is a soph at another Ivy, and I’ve heard her say practically the same thing as the young woman in the article - I think they are talking about “being smart” outside the classroom. Not that they sit around having deep intellectual discussions, but when they are just hanging out, someone can make a reference to something in history or literature or about another country, etc, and everyone “gets it” - you aren’t ostracized because you can actually quote a little Shakespeare, watch the History Channel for fun or know what a fractal is.</p>
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<p>Public school magnet programs are much-maligned in some circles, but one of their benefits is that they provide a safe place in which it is not only OK to be smart, it is expected.</p>
<p>I don’t think that Princeton students from magnet school backgrounds were embarrassed to express their intelligence in high school.</p>
<p>Interesting report. For all the talk of grade inflation, going to any Ivy and expecting to do little or no work isn’t realistic.</p>
<p>I do agree that at the average HS high academic achievement tends to isolate the student. At CC we’re used to magnet schools and high schools from areas with high income and/or high levels of parent education, but there are large numbers of mostly blue-collar, rural, etc. schools where studying is viewed with disdain, APs are few and far between, and only infrequently do kids aspire to elite colleges.</p>
<p>Last year after selecting 599 students for ED the president was quoted as saying she was very pleased with admisssions. She said they were able to enroll artists, violinists, orators, atheletes, dancers, poets and thespians… After reading the article my first thought was that she was more interested in collecting “gems” to show off more than anything else.</p>
<p>What’s refreshing about Princeton is discovering that students can be artistic, creative, and intellectually curious while still wearing Polo sweaters. Some people seem to think that you can’t be creative unless you wear black and have green hair, and you can’t be intelligent unless you have a pocket protector. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2006/03/30/arts/14992.shtml[/url]”>http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2006/03/30/arts/14992.shtml</a></p>
<p>Oh, thank God! Finally, a place where the more mainstream can feel, well, mainstream. :)</p>
<p>(Sorry, couldn’t resist).</p>
<p>Haha Garland. I have to say, my own d’s experience in her public hs was that most of the other very bright kids were, well, more of the black-wearing or pocket-protector types. It wasn’t until college that she found out she was what you are calling mainstream. Maybe this is only a problem in NY. ;)</p>
<p>“but there are large numbers of mostly blue-collar, rural, etc. schools where studying is viewed with disdain, APs are few and far between, and only infrequently do kids aspire to elite colleges.”</p>
<p>The problem is that’s where many of our kids, ( including my own), attend school. DD just learned to ignore the issue knowing it would get better if she went to a school where an interest in learning was universal. She is at such a place and is now smiling all the time even when occasionally a curve graded test shows her knowlege of the material as only “average”.</p>
<p>I actually don’t find Princeton to be so preppy, per se. Meaning, not so upper class, Connecticut-vintage, etc. But it is, hmmm, kind of wholesome. There’s a lot of enthusiasm, and not a lot of world-weary. Kids are intelligent, some wildly intelligent, but kind of in an aw-shucks way.</p>
<p>I’ve said on the Princeton forum before and will say it here. The eating clubs attract people who enjoy the social fray. Not all preppies. Not all rich. But definitely enjoy the social fray. And the theater groups, the dance groups, the singing groups, well, they are groups. The athletes? Mostly on teams. See? Social. And then of course you have Reunions and alumni loyalty etc. Somehow, probably the geography at first and now an embedded part of the culture, to me it is this social thing that defines Princeton much more than the old stereotypes of preppies etc. And I don’t mean partying either, just belonging and liking to interact, and for the most part not a lot of the ironic arms-crossed sort of intellectualism. Which I actually happen to like:), but it’s not Princeton’s mainstream theme.</p>
<p>IMHO.</p>
<p>Hey, aparent 5, I loved your Post #9.<br>
(Ditto!)
:)</p>
<p>One of my friend’s sons (from a top all male prep school in Dallas) had a mixed freshman year experience at Princeton. He is now a soph. His roommate was someone you would have expected to find at OU or Arkansas. He was a football jock who was heavy into partying and beer-drinking. Obviously, he had sufficient academics to make it into Princeton (yes, he was a recruit). My friend’s son is a non-drinker, and is perhaps a little too rigid in his views on drinking. He felt that there were VERY few non-drinkers and kids who weren’t interested in the parties. He loved the academics, and did make some friends. He chose Princeton over Stanford, Rice, SMU (full-ride) and a few others.</p>
<p>The key to a social life at Princeton is not partying or drinking. It definitely is finding your extracurricular niche. If you are in a group of any sort (see Alumother’s post) then your campus identity and social life will extend from that. The various extracurricular groups are intense, tightly knit, hard-working, demanding, and supportive of their members. </p>
<p>What I hear from Princeton students is that they like the “scene” created by the eating clubs, because for the most part the drinking and partying occur along the Street and not in the dorms, whereas friends from other schools talk about living 24/7 in a cloud of marijuana smoke or in Party Central. And at the eating clubs, which have many different spaces, some students cluster in the tap rooms, others dance, others talk, etc. For the majority, Princeton is a very social place. However, I am frequently told that a significant minority of the campus spends all their time in the library. </p>
<p>This thread is reminding me of Joe College, the novel about Yale in which the protagonist, a financial aid student from New Jersey, is stunned to discover that his very bright classmates spend a great deal of time partying.</p>
<p>MomofWildChild - Your friend’s son should have signed up for substance free housing. There are plenty of kids at Princeton that don’t drink. My S is a very light drinker who loves the parties at the eating clubs and can’t wait to join one. He says that once the other kids start drinking, they don’t even notice that he isn’t.</p>
<p>cookiemom! Hey it’s a Princeton moms of 2009 reunion…where’s dizzymom? Hehe. apart5 is kind of like our godmother…</p>
<p>I love it that the other kids don’t notice that cookieson isn’t drinking. That is adorable.</p>
<p>The popularity of a sub-free dorm option has increased on some college campuses, & spread to others, so that colleges are having to make adjustments. I think this is as it should be. If you’re a sedate type, or merely conscientious about your studies, sub-free can be the best choice, esp. freshman yr. Once you & current or potential roommates discover this common preference, you can choose a different dorm the following yr., & at least be assured of a sober lifestyle within your own 4 walls.</p>
<p>I love this option that Princeton has, & the division between dorm/social that aparent5 describes. It seems only fair to students (their families) who are paying a fortune & want to get some sleep & shut-eye for their tuition.</p>
<p>And for those who like parties and crowds of people, well, it’s never a secret where they are. As I understand it, it’s like call a friend, hey what are you doing, hey want to go over to the Street later. </p>
<p>Very different from my day, that’s for sure.</p>