A Must Read for Parents/Students: Lessons to be learned from tragedy

Parent Cafe
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I agree with InterestedDad. I think that there should be a clear message about when and how alcohol is appropriate – parents can model this in the home, which is what we have done. H typically has 1 beer in the evening, and we occasionally have wine with dinner. We may order a mixed drink when out with friends, but we’ve made it clear to the kids that it is illegal for them to drink. They are probably sick of me pointing out that we never have more than 2 alcoholic beverages, and that we are never intoxicated. To me, moderate drinking is limited to one or two alcoholic beverages in an evening. I think that the message to kids should be that they can drink appropriate amounts of alcohol, when they are of legal age, and they must never drink and drive. To condone HS kids consumption seems bizarre to me – though, I’m not suggesting that that’s what anyone is doing. I just can’t understand the casual approach that most kids will drink anyway, so don’t get too excited. I think it’s a matter of enforcing the law – if parent’s don’t do that, who will?</p>

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<p>I really do believe many (if not most) high school kids will experiment with alcohol. In our household we chose to take away some of the “forbidden fruit” nature. The important thing was not violating school rules and not drinking and driving. My daughter barely drank in high school, but she went to Interlochen which was like a convent. S is an older student (he was on the older end to begin with and then did a repeat year to start a new school as a junior) and is very independent. He was going on recruiting visits. Did I really expect that he wouldn’t drink? It just doesn’t bother me if he has a couple of beers with friends. We have never bought him alcohol or served his friends. Since his boarding school is pretty conservative and since he is an endurance athlete, it just hasn’t been a huge issue. I do get terrified about the huge parties that happen in our community. Several have been busted over the last couple of years. A young man my kids knew was recently killed in a single-car accident-he had been drinking. My son also knew Gordie Bailey, the CU boy who died of alcohol poisoning. Those are big lessons.</p>

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<p>Actually, I believe that Dr. Weschler has published 70+ articles in peer reviewed journals. The college administrators certainly take his findings seriously.</p>

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<p>How many drinks did the peers consume as they chatted about his findings? Just curious.</p>

<p>If you actually read about his supposed studies and the surveys upon which they are based…there is no way he could win a high school science contest. Challenge me. Go ahead. Look into his methodology.</p>

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<p>calmom #215 - I am with you totally. Personally, I subscribe to the following:
*modelling responsible drinking in the home
*allowing the European style of introducing diluted wine/wine in the home to your own child
*never serving alcohol to anyone other than your own child in your own home; it is illegal and modelling a flouting of the law is never an ok thing
*enforcing high school policies and contracts against drinking
*educating your child about BAC and signs of alcohol poisoning
*establishing consequences for your own hs-age child who drinks illegally</p>

<p>Personally, I would also like to see a return to a drinking age of post-hs graduation or age 18, whichever comes LATER.</p>

<p>I would also like to see colleges institute some of interesteddad’s suggestions, but I don’t hold my breath. Those who can vote with their alumni $$ might try for some influence, but I still don’t hold my breath.</p>

<p>Debating what is wrong with the design of the college environment is interesting to me and important. But I don’t think we should focus on that nearly so much as on our own areas of power, whatever they may be. As parents, we have to focus on what we can do.</p>

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<p>Here’s one thing every parent can do. Phone your child shortly before their 21st birthday and remind them that the odds of surviving a game of Russian roulette are probably higher than for the tradition of going to a bar, lining up 21 shots, and attempting to drink them.</p>

<p>Hopefully, we all get a “Oh, dad…I’m not an idiot” in response, but better safe than sorry.</p>

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<p>ID - i’m not entirely sure if this is correct, but I believe in PA if you are an education major and caught underage drinking it goes on your record. ( I could be wrong about that, but that’s what an education major told me )</p>

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And, based on my experience reported in post #89, I would beg you not to wait until their 21st birthday draws near. Make a similar call when
*prom season draws near
*high school grad weekend draws near
*Last Night before driving/flying off to college is impending
*Spring Break plans are being made</p>

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<p>I’m a college freshman in New York City, and I was saddened to read about this young man’s death. However, I was not surprised. There’s a disturbing amount of heavy underage drinking in college, and it’s often accompanied by a feeling of invincibility on the part of the drinker. I was surprised at the number of parents who seemed ok with underage drinking as long as it was in moderation. Having just graduated from a boarding prep school last year, I have to say, there’s not a lot of social drinking going on in high school. Because they’re not allowed to drink in public settings, kids go to a lot of trouble to keep from getting caught, and after all that effort, they’re not going to have just a glass of wine. What I witnessed was drinking to get drunk - the goal was to get as smashed as possible. Another thing about underage drinking - just because it’s in moderation doesn’t stop it from being illegal. While there are valid theories about using the “European method” to keep kids from drinking in excess, the law is still the law. If an authority figure other than you finds your kid drinking, chances are they won’t be lenient just because your child was breaking the law in moderation. Also, most of the people I know in college who drink started drinking before they got here. And the amount they consume is almost always higher than what they drank in high school.</p>

<p>I personally don’t drink, but I was given what I consider to be three great gifts in life:

  1. I discovered, after having a sip of my grandfather’s wine one Christmas, that I can’t stand the tast of alcohol.
  2. My mother’s powers of interrogation would impress the CIA.
  3. My father (here as MarDad) is a surgeon who spent his time scaring the you-know-what out of me as a child, regaling me with stories of severed limbs resulting from auto wrecks involving alcohol.</p>

<p>These three things have kept me from making many stupid mistakes in my life. Many of my fellow students are not so fortunate.</p>

<p>I read some of the posts about students feeling pressure to increase their drinking and partying in college, and it is unfortuantely very true. One of my friends told me that if she goes out in the evening and comes back before midnight, she goes out again, even if she’s tired or doesn’t feel like it, because if she stays in, she’ll feel “guilty for wasting a night.” As if she were fulfilling some kind of quota. Another friend, who’s parents allowed her to drink at home, goes out between three and four nights a week, and she doesn’t seem to enjoy it, but she feels like she has to keep up. I’m not saying this to imply that every person who has a drink before college will end up as a drunk, or that the European method doesn’t work for some people, but I from what I’ve seen, familiarity breeds contempt, and my friends who have had the least exposure to alcohol tend to drink the least in college. (Again, this is not every case: there are good kids gone wild and responsible, moderate drinkers here too)</p>

<p>The best advice I can give is to establish an open relationship with your kids, so they know they can come to you with their problems. Remind them of all the dangers of drinking, and if they do drink, to have a buddy system, so there’s somebody there monitering them and making sure they get home safely. For girls, it’s also important to remind them of the increased danger of being raped or assulted that comes with drinking. The amount of attacks on young women is very disturbing: in a study released by Duke I believe, something like 1/3 of college males would have sex with an unconsenting partner if they thought they could get away with it. It’s especially important for young college women to have a sober friend making sure they don’t leave the party with a stranger. For parents wanting more control over their student’s drinking activities, their finances are the best way to start. It’s very hard to buy drinks if you don’t have access to cash. If your student gets his or her money from you set it up so that you can view all of their transactions. My parents receive both my credit and checking statements, and my mother goes over every transaction with me. And ask lots of questions. Most students won’t mind to much, and the ones who do generally have something to hide.</p>

<p>Above all, remember the golden rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.</p>

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<p>mardad: your daughter is already a very articulate and observant person! thanks for posting your comments as a current college freshman Mardad’s D! We are all very saddened and sobered (!) by the reality that a CC poster died from alcohol poisoning. It seems to me that he was on the boards for a reason and needed help despite his hubris and bravado. I guess you are saying that parental boundaries and their clear expressions about underage drinking were important in forming the ways you deal wtih the drinking culture around you. You make some good points about alcohol increasing risks for being victimized and for assaults. I have a god daughter whose first big college party ended with a housemate being given the date rape drug in her drink. Although she was clearly totally confused and sick and had no idea when or where she was given this drug, the girls in the dorm still hesitated quite a while before calling for medical help. Everyone worried about “getting in trouble” or getting others in trouble while this girl had no idea where she had been or where she was.</p>

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<p>I realize that I have a viewpoint that might be interesting to those who believe in parents serving drinks to their own kids at home to act as a deterrent to underaged kids drinking dangerously.</p>

<p>I actually grew up in that kind of home. For Thanksgiving and Christmas, at Grandmom’s house all of the kids from elementary school age up would get a wineglass and a bit of wine (perhaps 1/4 of a glass). My grandparents had no substance abuse problems, and the only time that I saw the wine come out was at Thanskgving and Christmas. </p>

<p>I thought the wine tasted great (Manichevitz concord grape), and I felt very grown up. I also wondered, however, why my grandmom and other older relatives were breaking the law to serve the kids wine.</p>

<p>At my parents’ home, the same thing existed on holidays. I had the same reaction. Sometimes I would sneak and go find the wine bottle and get a little more, no more than 1/3 of a glass. I thought it tasted good. I wasn’t trying to get drunk.</p>

<p>When I stayed home from cramps and was in high school, my mom bought me a bottle of sloe gin and told me to use it medicinally. I did, having a few sips, which reduced the pain. That’s the only time I drank that nasty stuff, and by college had found that over the counter meds reduced the pain better.</p>

<p>I never went to a h.s. party in which drinking was going on. Admittedly, I was a nerd and my friends were nerds. We liked to do things like play Twister. I don’t think, however, that any of us had a desire to get drunk or thought that party = boozing.</p>

<p>When I turned 18, the legal age for drinking in my state then, my best friend and I went out to dinner, and I had a cocktail. One. No desire to get drunk. Never thought that was cool.</p>

<p>I went to college in a state with a higher drinking age than my home state. I brought a bottle of rum to school with me. By Oct., so little had been consumed that I used it to put in punch for a party in the dorm that my friends and I threw for about 100 people. Dancing, not boozing, was the focus of the party. </p>

<p>Flash to my own parenting: Since I didn’t like the fact that my relatives had broken the law to serve me booze as a kid, I didn’t do that to my kids. Neither showed any interest in underaged drinking.</p>

<p>Even when we were in Europe and it was legal for them to drink and I told them that if they wanted some wine with dinner, fine with me, both declined. </p>

<p>My older son went away to college, fell into the partying scene, dropped out and moved to a more distant state. I learned about his drinking when I accidentally found his blog, which had the kind of statements that Lucifer had on CC.</p>

<p>He is clearly in trouble with booze, and other than telling him this (which I have done), there’s nothing else that I can do. I don’t think that if I had given him booze as a teen, that would have prevented his current problem. Every indication is that when my S tried booze, he was hooked immediately. This might be linked to alcoholism in my husband’s family. My husband and his parents are not alcoholic, but plenty of others in the family are.</p>

<p>By not giving booze to him in h.s., perhaps I allowed my older S to gain a little more maturity and life experience before confronting his demon.</p>

<p>Younger son says he has no interest in alcohol and never plans to use. I tell him that it’s his choice: I just don’t support underaged drinking.</p>

<p>Anyway, for what it’s worth, here’s my story.</p>

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<p>Grist for Mini’s mill:</p>

<p>Drug tally shoots down a racial myth
While whites make up half of city residents, they comprise up to three-fourths of those who have died from drug abuse.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/03/25/drug_tally_shoots_down_a_racial_myth/[/url]”>http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/03/25/drug_tally_shoots_down_a_racial_myth/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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NSM~</p>

<p>Oh, honey, I’m sooooooooooo sorry that your oldest son is currently struggling with the tenacious and dangerous problem of alcohol abuse. This is so heartbreaking…</p>

<p>I, too, come from a family with a history of alcoholism. My maternal grandfather died from alcohol-related causes at the VERY young age of 46, well before I was even born. </p>

<p>I very much believe that some kids, due to genetic make-up, are biologically geared toward these sorts of addictions. Of course I worry about this with my own kids, though neither of my parents was an alcoholic (they drank a glass of wine or a beer maybe once every six months). </p>

<p>Sometimes, I think as hard as we search for the <em>perfect</em> solution, there really is none. You did everything “right” IMHO, and yet, your son still struggles with this issue. We simply do not have control over everything we’d like to…</p>

<p>{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}} to you, NSM. </p>

<p>~berurah</p>

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<p>Thank you Northstarmom for sharing your personal story. It is an example, I believe, that no matter what parents do with the best intentions, limits, values, support, their children may choose to do things or go down a path that is not positive and may make mistakes or make poor choices, or become alcholics or many other things. Parents do what they can. Putting all the blame on parents just isn’t the whole story, nor fair.</p>

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<p>Northstarmom - I am so sorry. You are such a strong presence. I hope your son recovers. Thank you - that takes real strength to reveal. </p>

<p>As a note - since this news and these discussions, I find myself watching my own drinking very carefully. As I said, I have a two glasses of red wine a night pattern. And the occasional desire to go for three, which I try to resist. And the occasional night where I abstain altogether.</p>

<p>This has made me very conscious.</p>

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<p>I think that most of us would agree that some people have a biological tendency toward addiction, as NSM has described. I’m not aware of any way to determine that predilection ahead of time, which is why I have a hard time understanding the concept of allowing teenagers to drink at all. My parents came from Europe, so I’m quite familiar with the different attitude toward alcohol use among young people. And my mother, like NSM’s, occasionally suggested alcohol for a medicinal purpose. (An approach with which I seriously disagree!) </p>

<p>MarDad’s D had a wonderful post about drinking, even in moderation, for teenagers. It is illegal in most (if not all?) states, and may initiate a kid with abusive tendencies to a substance. She also said, “Also, most of the people I know in college who drink started drinking before they got here. And the amount they consume is almost always higher than what they drank in high school.”</p>

<p>If you had a child with a family history of diabetes, would you encourage him/her to eat a little sugar, just so they would know how to eat sweets in moderation? Or would you steer your child to a healthy diet with limited amounts of carbs? Why would any parent take the chance of introducing a mood-altering substance (alcohol) to an underage child? I know several parents who took the approach of allowing moderate consumption in the home, with the idea that it would provide a safe introduction and remove the taboo nature of alcohol. For some it works – for others, it’s led to real struggles in the family.</p>

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<p>My colleagues in Public Health tell me that they think they have found a gene for addiction that is present in 50% of the population. This correlates well with the data that about half the people who have started smoking have been able to quit but the remaining 50% of the smokers need help from some other program. So it is reasonable for NSM to assume that someone could become addicted from the start.
Another interesting statistic is that at one time the California State Board calculated that as many as 20% of the Physicians in California had a problem with drugs or drinking. Given that a large number of doctors are teetotalers, this percentage indicates a similar genetic predisposition in the population. Your chances of developing a problem are at least 20%. Not all of them die or are a danger to their patients, but they have to spend a lot of effort dealing with the problems in their personal lives and fighting the addiction.
So, introducing drinking in the somewhat uncontrolled college situation is a little bit similar to playing Russian Roulette, and while you are unlikely to die if you are the unlucky one I believe all of the adults on this forum have friends who have had to invest much time and money in fighting their addiction that they might have spent on something else.</p>

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<p>Mardad’s D:</p>

<p>Great post!</p>

<p>NSM: Hugs to you and your S.</p>

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<p>Ditto on that to both.</p>

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<p>Triple ditto.</p>