I am new here but I have a question I ask sincerely and with good intent.
There seems to me to be a severe culture on CC which criticizes people for wanting prestigious or private college educations. An example is the quote below, from another thread (poster name withheld).
- If it is a college you are proud to go to, and love, why is it a waste?
- Why isn't the value of a high-demand education its own reward?
- Why should this critical developmental life decision -- which has social and interpersonal effects which quite possibly outstrip the professional ones -- be decided with a spreadsheet like calculating ROIs on Municipal Bonds?
- And more importantly, why do posters feel so entitled to tell people things like "it's a waste"?
A recent thread where a student asked why he shouldn’t enroll at MIT when he could go to UCSB for $160K less, people were very adamant that “you won’t make $160K more in your career with the MIT degree” (paraphrased). Let’s forget the fact that they have no idea if that is true, nor do they have data supporting it… Why would that MATTER?
It’s turning me off this otherwise incredible source of information.
For the record, I am not talking about threads where people state they can’t afford to pay for one they want. Those are different (and heartbreaking) circumstances and I understand that.
Sorry, I’ll hop off the soapbox myself now 
How can going to an outstanding program ever be a waste? There seem to be a contingency that believes that all schools are basically alike and, especially if you plan on going on to professional schools, go to the cheapest one as long as it is also one where you will get a high GPA (aka, not encounter a single academic challenge) because they believe nothing else matters and that is all there is to academics-a GPA. If put in charge, all our future health and legal professionals would have taken the easiest courses at the cheapest schools. But this is an opinion that is expressed by only an active minority on this site.
Some people feel that the peer group and wealth of opportunities outside the classroom add value to a “prestigious” education. Others don’t.
And perhaps those that did not attend “high end” (or “competitive” or however you want to phrase it) themselves or whose kids aren’t going to them are motivated to believe all schools are the same. I don’t think those schools are best for everyone but they do offer certain things that less “high end” or “competitive” or “whatever” don’t offer. Schools are not all the same and students are not all the same. Some will benefit far more from attending a “name” school than others. But I’d guess cognitive dissonance propels some to argue that all schools are the same.
No one has ever said all schools are the same. That is an exaggeration.
Why do people say that about nursing? Because dollars and cents wise…some programs are not worth it. You can do just as well without spending the $200k more. As a parent paying the bill, I had limits here too.
It is easy to choose what you want. If you are not the one paying.
Re #1
Professional schools (law and medical) themselves have set up the incentive to choose cheap with high grade inflation and take easy A courses, since the professional schools are expensive and emphasize high GPA in admission.
Don’t blame posters here for reporting the obvious incentives that professional schools have set up.
If the family has the wherewithal to pay top dollar for the kid to study whatever the kid wants to study wherever it is that the kid wants to study, then it is fine to do just that.
Most families face significant challenges in paying for their kid’s education, so they do have to make decisions about which degree programs might be worth paying more for. In most cases, the cheaper place will be just as good for the student’s goals.
If money is no object or the student qualifies for lots of aid from the ivy, then “go for it” if you get into an Ivy BSN program.
However, if you’re borrowing large sums, or you’re paying full freight and parents aren’t loaded and need that money to help fund their retirement, then it can be a waste of money. Spending more can be a luxury…maybe easily affordable, maybe not.
My sister and her H have piles of cash (huge inheritance), so they didn’t mind (over) spending for their kids’ eng’g degrees. They’ll never miss the money. But, their children aren’t earning higher salaries than their cousins who went to UCs or other less-expensive schools. Imagine if my sister had borrowed the money or had an underfunded retirement? Imagine how upset she’d now be seeing that her kids’ coworkers went to Cal Poly or UCI or CSUFullerton for a fraction, and are being paid the same as her kids?
I didn’t realize any Ivies had nursing programs and just looked at those at Penn, Cornell and Columbia. Part of the reason I did not associate Ivies with nursing is that they have a long history of being just for men. Now, men are nurses, but that was pretty unheard of at these schools.
Nursing is a more career oriented program, and that is probably what that quote about “waste” referred to. Same with business (though at least one Ivy has business). Historically, Ivies have not focused directly on career training.
It is indeed possible that a great nursing education can be obtained at many schools, especially with so much of it happening in the field. There might be less immersion in what the college has to offer in other areas. Or for whatever reason, someone might feel that majoring in something else means truly experiencing the positives of a selective school.
I am not saying I agree. Just that there is sort of a historical background.
As for the forum in general, I have frequently gone on to threads that almost bash Ivies in their strong effort to say that Ivies aren’t necessary and there are many good schools. I think it is worthwhile to tell students and families who don’t know a lot about choices, that there are many good schools. I think it is worthwhile to tell kids to relax a little and enjoy high school, explore interests, work reasonably, be a good friend etc. rather than think about “getting in” for the high school years. That said, the Ivies are indeed wonderful experiences when they are a good fit and they have great financial aid.
As long as YOU can pay for it, GO FOR IT…and I meant YOU…NOT your parents, UNLESS they have money to burn.
University of Pennsylvania and Columbia (though IIRC, Columbia’s program is a graduate program).
ucbalumnus, But that often repeated mantra does not appear to be correct. A few weeks ago a poster noted that Yale law school had accepted zero students from UMass and from SUNYs into their first year class. I looked at the profile and found that the poster was correct. Then I looked at some of the other class profiles (for law and MD) at other elite professional training programs and saw similar trends. The undergraduate school you attend does matter to the top (or most competitive) schools. There was a distinct preference for students who completed their undergraduate work at top schools. That isn’t to say that a student from UMass could never get into Yale law school. But, it appeared obvious that there was a preference for students from elite (competitive) schools.
And, sometimes it is cheaper for students to go to very competitive schools that meet need than to attend their public state school. For a very strong student, wouldn’t it be better to attend an Ivy League school for less than it costs to attend your local public college? Why would you want to pay more for the state school?
^ Now you’re sliding down a slippery slope of hypothetical-ness. I have yet to see a thread saying “Ivy costs far less than Arkansas State, should I go UArk?”
Re #13
Is it an actual preference, or merely the fact that students who tend to get high GPA and MCAT or LSAT scores are better represented at more selective schools? Publicly available information is not sufficient to say one way or the other.
Also, as noted in #14, situations where the prestige school costs less than the lower prestige school usually do not bring up these types of threads.
@Postmodern Alot of folks on CC believe liberal arts majors create “big thinkers” and professional studies come later, in grad school. (Engineering always gets an exception, for some reason). So, if you want to go into investment banking, for example, according to the liberal arts fans, its better to major in English or Classics than Finance (business is a no no). However, schools are slowly bringing in more diverse majors to match interests of students, like computer science, film production, nursing, communications, etc. Perhaps colleges are realizing that 70% of students go right to work after college, instead of grad school (many go to grad school later-at night, when they have work experience and many don’t go at all). With the cost of college as it is now, people are being more practical.
So, yes, there is a definite leaning for top school/liberal arts majors here on CC. If someone can afford, or gets FA at top schools for Nursing, they should absolutely take that educational opportunity!
That title could substitute many occupations held by Ivy grads. College is for so much more than job opportunities, it is for an education. Knowing more than your job requires in not a waste. It appears that most Ivies (a sports league, btw) do not choose to educate nurses. So what?
Regarding attending many top schools other than the most elite- it is not worth huge loans to do so. There is a cost/benefit ratio to consider. The “benefits” of attending MIT/Harvard… are not necessarily there compared to a number of other top institutions. The end result- money earned, graduate degree obtained et al can usually be achieved with several options. If money is not a consideration it makes sense to pay for the best for you education. However, no school is worth sacrificing your future because you severely limit your lifestyle due to paying off loans for decades.
One size does not fit all. Plus- some programs are3 better at different schools. I could flip the coin and wonder if choosing an Ivy for nursing may be choosing a lesser program than some other schools offer. Priorities- the school name or the education? It could be choosing the better nonnursing courses with an adequate nursing program instead of going for the best nursing program. Depends on the individual and the goals. One can be as competent within a few years of working with lesser training- but one can never replace the stimulation of an overall college education.
I could go on longer, but, enough said. btw- as a physician (a woman) I appreciate smart nurses. People are multifaceted.
Side track. Is it a waste for a Harvard educated physician (undergrad or medical school) to end up working the same job as less elite schooled individuals in an average place in the Midwest? My oh my, doing the same thing the rest of us.
I think the school where a registered nurse graduates from become less important when they start working. However, it becomes relevant during promotion to manager level, or if the nurse choose to pursue a graduate program. By the way, some nurses don’t even want to become managers. They are happy where they are.
A nurse from ivy league school and a nurse from from an unknown school passed the same licensure exam and also makes about the same amount of income. Sometimes, promotion may also factor job performance which could level the playing field among nurses.
If we look at education as an investment, it seems the ROI from ivy league school is less, when it comes to nursing. There’s always a salary cap to every profession.
There are nurses and there are nurses. I know a Brown BA/Columbia RN who has made significant contributions to the field of public Heath. There are also plenty of RNs in management at hospital chains or HMOs who make executive salaries. I am not sure why the OP picked nursing. There are Ivy educated teachers with similar stories. Maybe a smart kid doesn’t need to go to an Ivy to be a teacher or a nurse but I’d bet that Ivy education helps expand their career options, their earning potential and the contribution they make to their field