<p>Wanna consider taking a CUNY/SUNY talk to another thread? Neither system showed up in OP’s D’s sights. Nor other state U’s. </p>
<p>I am a Massachusetts resident, and even though I don’t have any kids at UMass, I do take exception to the statement that UMass might be “well below [relative’s] academic level” A star student can do amazing things at a big university, like UMass. They have some departments that are top in the country. They have a terrific honors college. I would definitely consider it for my high school student, and don’t think it is necessary to malign this university.</p>
<p>“and most importantly (as seems to be the rage today) showed a “deep EC” over 10 years with the culmination in a GS gold award project with 3 regional speakers, 2 national speakers on safety issues for girls regarding pertinent topics of the day including sexual assault, financial literacy and the like.”</p>
<p>I’m not sure Girl Scouts would count as a “deep EC”. My daughter (c/o 13) was in Girl Scouts for 12 years also and it really didn’t require much time at all per week. My son has been in the Boy Scouts for 9 years and spends at least 3x as much time participating in scouting activities as the Girl Scouts did. I don’t think you can compare the depth to say an athlete who spends 20 hours a week practicing.</p>
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<p>Those comments came from my relative’s HS teachers and neighbors in a Boston area suburb sometime in the early-mid-'80s where he attended HS. </p>
<p>I agree they have strong departments such as Engineering and American History. However, having strong academic departments or even an a honors college may not override the negatives of being in a college where a party-school like atmosphere was widespread as recounted from every UMass alum I knew who attended during that era or even into the mid-'90s. </p>
<p>While things have changed within the last decade, the “Zoo Mass” reputation still prevails among many Massachusetts residents in the Boston area from what I’ve seen and heard. It’s especially strong among areas where there are UMass alums or those who knew UMass alums from that period. </p>
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<p>Wouldn’t it also matter what level of achievement they reached? A Boy Scout who reaches Eagle may impress more than one who reaches Second Class, for example. An athlete who wins the state championship in an individual sport or is a key contributor to a state champion team may impress more than one who does not advance past district competition in an individual sport or warms the bench on a team that does not reach the post-season locally.</p>
<p>@Dragonflygarden : The top level of Boy and Girl Scouts require exactly the same thing that ivies tend to look for: going out into the community and solving some problem. So they tend to be attractive. I know a lot of Eagle Scouts who made it into Harvard, and I think their Eagle scout projects had more to do with it than the getting to the top rung of the Boy Scouts.</p>
<p>So I think it, in fact, does qualify as a deep EC.</p>
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<p>I would have said the same thing.</p>
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<p>Well, I may be prejudiced because I have attended a number of their productions, including an excellent Importance of Being Earnest a few weeks ago, but Bowdoin has a couple of very active theater groups that play to full houses drawn from the town as well as the college.</p>
<p>Good advice, but you also need to add, “And don’t become a Cubs fan – because that will only lead to a lifetime of pain.” </p>
<p>@ucbalumnus & @collegealum314</p>
<p>The Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts run differently. In the Boy Scout you must progress through each rank and earn quite a few merit badges. It takes at least 2 years to become an Eagle Scout if you really work hard at it. I know of 1 boy who earned the Eagle by 13 most do not earn it until nearly 18. </p>
<p>In the Girl Scouts you are placed in the level according to age or grade. You can be the highest level “ambassador” without ever having been a lower level. You can pursue the Gold Award without ever having earned the Bronze or Silver awards. My oldest earned the Bronze and Silver awards but choose not to continue on to the Gold Award as she was so busy with rowing. (Disclaimer- my information on Girl Scouts is about 2 years old)</p>
<p>Quite frankly seeing several Eagle and Gold Projects first hand- it really isn’t that amazing. I think the process of getting to Eagle and then finishing is more significant the the project itself. </p>
<p>The impact of scouts really does depend on the project, imo. While some may know kids who did something that required a deep commitment and ended up impressive, not all do. Still, at least it can count as a long term activity.</p>
<p>Consolation, you have a point about tech crew, but it got me to go back over OP’s other posts. I wonder if her D did take AP calc and AP physics. Ie, how much she presented as a STEM kid. </p>
<p>But no matter how we take this apart, they just can’t take all the good kids from everywhere. I do wish her D the best. </p>
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<p>Well, it says that the kid took 90% of the APs offered. And also, she had a 98.5% average. I would be shocked if a person with this profile didn’t take AP calc, because all the top students do. My guess is she may have taken at least two of the major science AP’s–chem, bio, or physics–if not all three. If you are on the top track at a good high school, generally by junior year you will take a science AP, a math AP, and humanities AP(s) even if you aren’t particularly in love with everything. With this schedule, you will end up with two of the major science APs (chem,bio, or physics), unless you decide to take something easier, and most people with a 98.5% average don’t go for the fluff option.</p>
<p>Agree that especially in NJ Rutgers is looked at as less than other state schools. While some, U Mich or Penn State are definitely higher ranked and with better national reputations, others are more popular but not any “better” schools. However, in a small state like NJ sometimes kids just want to get farther away. With Rutgers being a more expensive states school, the difference in cost is not that great to go to U Del or U of MD. Many students do end up at Rutgers and actually get a good education. </p>
<p>CAlum, in older posts, the D was debating AP calc and maybe AP phys. And the school only offered 5, maybe 7 this year. Again, we don’t know more than we know. The colleges wouldn’t hold limits against her- but they would look at her choices. On that other thread, nearly every poster did push AP calc.</p>
<p>@Cobrat:
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<p>All I can say is that it certainly didn’t hurt my daughter in admissions to stand on her legal rights and NOT waive anything. </p>
<p>I think that potential harm from weak or negative LOR’s outweighs any theoretical risk that busy ad coms are dwelling on whether the waiver box is checked or not. </p>
<p>It’s also possible to have it both ways (check the box but also get a copy of all the recs) – my d’s school handled recs by giving the student a stack of envelopes and leaving it to the student to collect the letters, and address and mail the envelopes. I suppose my daughter could have done that and also checked the little box on the common app form… but that’s not her style. (I don’t remember what my son did. I just remember that the teachers gave him copies of what they wrote. He was supposed to supply the stamped envelopes to the teacher to mail, and the teacher’s recs had to be resent to all the colleges by fax because somewhere along the line they didn’t get sent by the due date)</p>
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<p>I’m sure that the ad coms know full well that many students have seen the LOR’s whether or not the box is checked, just as they know that many students have extensive prep for SAT tests, and may retake tests multiple times and use score choice to avoid disclosing weaker test results. The “waiver” doesn’t mean that the students and parents haven’t seen the LOR’s – it simply means that the student has waived the right to ask for a copy from the college.</p>
<p>Personally, I don’t have much regard for a teacher or g.c. who would fail to inform a candidate to uber-selective colleges that they were unable to write a supportive recommendation. Why can’t a teacher say, “I’m sorry, but I am not comfortable writing a letter for you?” And if the GC has some issue or problem that would tend to negatively impact the student in admissions, then I’d think it would be the GC’s responsibility early on to express those concerns to the student. </p>
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<p>This wouldn’t be allowed at my HS or any other HS…public or private I know of. </p>
<p>At mine and other schools I knew of, the teacher is supposed to arrange to write and mail out the LOR him/herself. In the process, the LOR writer and HS was supposed to ensure integrity in the process to avoid undue pressure from others, especially students/parents. Only things students were supposed to do was to make the LOR request and if agreed to by the teacher/LOR writer, student was supposed to hand him/her stamped addressed envelopes, a “list of accomplishments”/resume, and leave the rest to the LOR writer. </p>
<p>The adcoms would regard a system like you described as a “broken system” which puts the integrity of LORs and possibly even GC reports into serious question. </p>
<p>The whole point of the LOR/GC report is to allow for a teacher/LOR writer/GC to write as honest a recommendation as humanly possible without undue influence from the student, his/her parents, or any other parties. If there aren’t any safeguards to ensure there isn’t such undue influence, you may as well simplify the system by substituting recommendations from parents and even HS friends*. </p>
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<li>Seems like the practice of “student peer recommendations” was once common for some private colleges. </li>
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<p>This year at my daughter’s school, all the recommendations from teachers and counselors were done electronically via the Common App or SUNY or CUNY electronic application. In previous years, the student gave stamped, addressed envelopes to the teachers who mailed in the recommendations, but those days are gone!</p>
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Well then, obviously your knowledge is limited.</p>
<p>I figured my kids were lucky that their teachers were willing to actually write the letters on their own, and didn’t expect the kids to draft the letter for them. </p>
<p>I write rec letters all the time, and I find it faintly insulting when the person who has asked for the letter (and my time) doesn’t trust me and the integrity of the system. It immediately distances me from the student, and though I would never consciously write a mediocre letter of recommendation (I would refuse first), I certainly think that the student, who needs to see the letter, is paranoid, lacking social graces, and outside a system of review. That is, they do not understand the process of applying to graduate school or a job.</p>
<p>It isn’t only the adcom who is affected by a decision to review the letters.</p>
<p>At our HS, students gave stamped, addressed envelopes to Guidance for every school they applied to: for transcript, mid year report, GC rec, and however many teacher recs they were sending to each school. if for some reason a student needed a physical copy of a rec to forward somewhere, it came in a sealed envelope with a seal stating that the seal should not be broken. My S’s college transcript came in a sealed envelope stating the same thing, and on the transcript itself it said that if it was not presented in the sealed envelope it was not valid. </p>
<p>I don’t know if some teachers showed kids their recs, but I strongly doubt it. It simply was not done.</p>
<p>Kid1 needed to hand off stamped envelops with addresses to the counselor and one of the teachers while the other teacher chose to do it online couple of years ago. Hopefully the stamped envelop business is done with when kid2 applies next year.</p>