A Prestige Workaround

Parents Forum
1

We’ve all been stuck in the infinite loop of “prestige matters-spend the money”, “prestige doesn’t matter-don’t be an idiot”

We argue about it non-stop on here, but we all know that we live in a world where most people have very limited knowledge about colleges. If most people were asked to pick the more rigorous school out of Xavier and Williams, most people would probably pick Xavier.

Instead of arguing about prestige on here day and night, how do we get the message out to the outside world?

We all know that the education a kid would get at Fairfield is no different than what they would get at Villanova.
How do we get that message out, so that everyone knows it, not just all of us? I actually think it’s not possible,
based on my experiences here, I think we need a workaround.

I was thinking about it the other night. My daughter could probably get into Villanova or Lehigh, but I can’t afford it, because we make too much money. So I might have to send her to Fairfield, which is a great school, but definitely has less prestige.

I was thinking about the people reading her resume with Fairfield on it. If I could only make every person reading her resume think about the fact that she “went” to Fairfield, but “she could have gone to” Villanova, Bucknell, etc." that would make the world a more fair place. Maybe she could put that right after her degree - “Admitted to Villanova, Attended Fairfield”.

I’m kidding, of course, but you see what I’m saying. I’m going to be bold, and say that anyone who disagrees with me is full of it. And my apologies to any Fairfield people. I love the school, and I think my daughter might very well end up attending there. I’m just being honest.

But is there a way to get people to read resumes the way I just described? It seems reasonable, in today’s college market, to assume that any kid who is isn’t rich, is at a school which is at least one tier below where they could have attended.

Is there any way to get the resume readers to read resumes this way? It seems like a simple thing. It seems much easier than the way most people on here approach the problem - convince people that prestige doesn’t matter at all. It clearly does.

I don’t have a solution to the resume reader problem, other than having all of us harass our friends and family about it, which isn’t a bad start. I’m going to think about it some more, but if anyone has any suggestions, I’d love to hear them.

Thanks,
WalknOnEggShells

2

If you act like something is second fiddle, it will be second fiddle. Drawing comparisons or pointing out higher ranked schools will only work against what you are trying to achieve IMO. Go where you need to go and kick butt. Get good grades, get good internships and work experience, take advantage of every door open to you, open some doors that aren’t. Don’t apologize or justify or rationalize a college selection. If you have to do that, IMO, you are only putting it down.

3

Most people know that finances often play a role in college selection… or at least I think they know (?). As far as what regular outside people think… eventually you just have to come to terms with the words “who cares.”

Once a student is in college what becomes most important are the accomplishments- not whether Fairfield or Villanova is on the resume. If a student is active on campus, excels in his/her major, develops close relationships with professors, does undergrad research, has outstanding internships, etc… that is what employers will see.

4

@doschicos, thanks for your response. You’re saying that prestige doesn’t matter. I respect that, but I disagree.

I’m saying that if you agree that prestige matters,. how do you deal with it, given limited resources?

5

I don’t actually know enough about Villanova and Fairfield to know how they rank against each other! I know little about either. I think they are both Catholic. I think they are both in Pennsylvania, at least I’m fairly sure Villanova is. I once watched my son’s friend play lacrosse vs Fairfield. Does that help? There are going to be people like me who recoginize both as universities with no opinion otherwise.

6

I’m saying you don’t fight prestige by comparing yourself to schools that are more prestigious. I don’t think that works. It’s psychological. It’s like trying too hard to impress which usually backfires. Or like the guy with the chip on his shoulder. Never comes off well. :slight_smile:

Do well where you are and let results speak for themselves.

7

@WalknOnEggShells as someone who has screened resumes and has been part of the hiring committee at different companies, trust me, experience always trumps the name of the school. Employers are not hiring the name of the degree, they want an experienced, dependable, hard working employee that can fit into the company culture and immediately make an impact. Now that’s not to say name of school doesn’t have an impact at all, it depends on what field of study your D wants to pursue. But the wise thing to do is to try to do undergrad with little to no debt. These days most kids are getting their masters and having to pay for it themselves so if your D doesn’t have to be burdened with loans, that would be the ideal situation.

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@LBowie, they are both Catholic. Villanova is outside Philadelphia, and Fairfiled is in Connecticut,. If you have 20K, I can stop worrying right now - I’ll meet you in Pennsylvania for the handoff :slight_smile:

Just kidding - where are your kids going to school?

People in NY know the difference between Fairfield and Villanova. Some people on here pretend that there’s no difference, but everyone knows that there is one. That’s the whole point of this thread - stop pretending that there is no difference in prestige(different than quality of education) and deal with it.

9

My kid 1 went to Vanderbilt (sometimes confused with Villanova) and kid 2 goes to Skidmore (sometimes confused with Swarthmore.) :-). I am in Massachusetts, and have lived in California. I’ve worked in academia and have attended or worked at 6 universities, but I don’t know them all! (I did not know what state Vanderbilt was in until my son was applying to college.)

10

I get your frustration, but it’s kind of pointless. How is saying “got into Villanova, chose Fairfield” any different from saying “had the grades and test scores to get into Harvard, was denied, went to State U Honors College instead.”?

There is nothing you can do about it. Your kid will go to college and make the most of whatever opportunities come his or her way.

11

I don’t pay for my kids’ colleges for the messaging. I pay for the actual education. Most people you meet in your life will have no idea where you went to college unless you drop it into the conversation. But I do care that my kids have learned to think more critically, analyze, write and speak more effectively, developed relationships with other students and professors that carry on beyond their four years at the college, and have the fundamentals of their major well understood. So I’m not super worried about who knows the name and who doesn’t for their colleges. What matters is the humans they are shaped into by that experience.

12

Looking at your other posts, it looks like your daughter hasn’t even applied to colleges yet? I’m confused. Isn’t this putting the cart in front of the horse?

Also, I assume this is an error on your part or was it intended? “If most people were asked to pick the more rigorous school out of Xavier and Williams, most people would probably pick Xavier.”

13

Maybe its best to let your daughter decide where to apply rather than the parent trying to decide “where to send her”. Just sayin’

14

I have been in corporate recruiting for 30 years and believe me, you are worrying about the wrong problem. My team reads hundreds of thousands of resumes per year (over a career that means millions of resumes) and the difference between Villanova and Fairfield- all things being equal- is not worth sweating over.

Here’s what counts- if you’re going to be a psych major, be a psych major who has taken a rigorous two semester sequence in statistics, not the watered down “stats for people who hate numbers” course which might count for her major but won’t impress employers. If you’re going to be an art history major, be fluent in French or Russian or Spanish or whatever language it is that was the dominant cultural force in the region you are focused on. If you major in econ, take econometrics and valuation or another hard finance course, don’t skate by with the easy/peasy econ courses that the helmet athletes take for guaranteed A’s without studying too hard. And whatever you major in- read, read, read. Write. Learn to write- all colleges have writing centers. If crafting an 8 page paper is hard, get professional help. If your kid graduates without knowing how to properly footnote or create an appendix or do citations or write a two page summary (regardless of the topic) you’ve wasted your money.

I personally believe that prestige counts but not in “ooh Villanova” way your post suggests.

Tell your D to make it her business to wring every ounce of value out of her education- go to seminars and symposia even when they are not “required”, but when else are you going to hear the Dalai Lama debate Justin Trudeau (or whomever is showing up for the campus debate society that day). Go to concerts even if you hate Baroque music- go to art exhibits, show up at professor’s office hours, when the Dean has a students tea make sure you are there.

There are ways to get a prestigious education everywhere. And there are ways to major in beer pong and come out of college just as superficial and ignorant as you went in. It’s all on her.

15

I was wondering about the Williams comment as well. Williams is one of the most selective and excellent schools in the country.

It sounds trite but really is true: think about the quality of the experience and education, not prestige.

The difference in prestige between the schools you mention may be negligible: some of us don’t know these schools much at all.

If your daughter visits schools and loves the size, location, academics and most of all the “vibe” of one or a few, and you can pay for it/them, great. If her favorite school is out of your financial range, that’s a tough one. Sometimes it is good to avoid visiting that school in the first place!

16

I agree with @blossom…it is not what the general public thinks but what employers think about a college that counts.

17

OP, I love your creative question. You’re right, prestige does matter, but it’s not everything and maybe we do need to consider some work-arounds. A strategy we used with D’s high school internship supervisors–people who we knew in a few years could potentially hire her–was to educate them about the academic program at the college D will be attending in the fall. D’s school is good but not well-known in general, and totally unknown to these gentlemen. Since they work at a state institution, it was clear they were only familiar with regional state schools. In their minds, the prestigious programs in D’s field were at several non-flagship state colleges where some prominent colleague or another was teaching. Now, I was not at all opposed to considering a state university for D, and in fact we had already checked out the particular schools they recommended. I am certain there was a reason they thought highly of them, but what was frustrating to us was a) their OOS price tag, b) large size that was not a good fit for D, and most importantly, c) the offerings at these institutions were actually quite limited compared to those at D’s chosen LAC. Oddly enough, the state univ. they recommended most highly didn’t even have a department or major in the discipline!

So, we decided to engage in a propaganda campaign. Under the pretense of asking their advice about what courses they feel are essential for an undergraduate curriculum in their field, she showed them her college’s course listings and departmental summary, and even sent them a video featuring a blurb about some resources of the department. They were quick to point out some courses they felt were “missing,” and then D was able to tell them that indeed those courses were offered but in other departments and that she planned to take them.

What blossom suggests seems very wise. Find out what employers are looking for and find a way to acquire those skills and experiences wherever you attend, and then highlight them as you promote yourself.

18

I read Blossom’s post without seeing who wrote it, and said this must be Blossom. Perfect advice as usual.

19

Why is Fairfield your only alternative? Is there nothing affordable closer in perceived prestige to Villanova?

20

Just want to add that internships, volunteering and work experiences during the year or during the summer are, I think, really helpful if the attitude of employers is what you are worried about. More important than where you go to school in many cases.