"often finding jobs not even peripherally related to what they studied in college "
Is this anything new though? How many people do you know your age that are employed in a job related to what they majored in at college? For me, way less than half.
UCB- if your argument is that the labor markets are inefficient, I will agree with you 200%. People have a poor understanding of how hiring and employment works. There was a parent posting last year that her son had “wasted” his college education by getting a degree in psychology. Many posters tried to help, pointing out all the careers that a person with a BA in Psych can do, jobs the kid can get etc.
Turns out they live in a depressed area, kid didn’t want to look outside his home town, parents seemed happier to complain that the kid was underemployed than encouraging him to move to Charlotte or Atlanta or Dallas or any number of metro areas where the kid could get launched.
Adults have a weak grasp on what it takes to get and keep a job which offers substantial advancement. I have neighbors who complain that their kids are getting job offers “but they’ll need to travel”. Nope- kid doesn’t want to travel. I get it when a 35 year old with two little kids decides to downshift to spend more time at home and less time in airports- but seriously- a 22 year old needs to downshift? Or the kid gets a job with a major corporation but the offer is from the subsidiary in Minneapolis-- kid only wants to work at HQ which is in SF. Seriously-- only HQ.
And their parents encourage/enable the magical thinking here.
@blossom, I absolutely love and learn so much from your postings.
I have a nephew who graduated from univ Minnesota Minneapolis with a degree in biology in 2016. He decided he didn’t want to pursue a job in science so he got a job with an executive recruiting firm. Did well there for about a few months, decided the job wasn’t for him and got a job with a tech firm as a project coordinator. He’s loving his job and travels quite a bit giving presentations on network solutions to large clients. He’s learned everything on the job. Just an example of how your major doesn’t limit your career choices…you do.
There’s a caveat. Let’s face it. you don’t get that writing job if you can’t write, never wrote anything except some school papers… Nor do you get into pharm sales, if all you ever did was hang on campus, summers were spent mowing lawns. You can’t work in recruiting without a certain energy. Nor walk into project management if all you ever did was reactive (follow someone else’s syllabus, lol.) Etc. But kids from the non-elite schools can go after school and summer experiences that can matter on a first post-grad resume, same as their more motivated peers who happened to get into more selective schools. It’s about vision/follow through and energy, same as the skills for getting into an elite.
“…finding jobs not even peripherally related to what they studied in college or not needing a college degree.” Many of us feel college isn’t about specific job training. It’s not the same as paying for trade school to become an X, then not finding work in X.
In a sense, you have to open your mind. There are movers and shakers on campuses besides HYPabc. And there are kids who sleepwalk through.
FWIW we are not profession recruiters/headhunters/HR peeps, but we do a lot of “pop-up” projects that require a big staff fast. Most of the “non-tech specific” jobs mostly require basic word-office skills, great people skills, excellent organization skills and great communication skills (and hard work/long hours/good sense of humor due to hard work long hours.) In the past 5 years, off the top of my head for non-skill specific roles, we have hired grads of UCLA, USC, Elon, Emerson, Northeastern, Penn, CSUN, LMU, a small school in the midwest I can’t remember and a bunch more I can’t recall off hand. All got in the door due to glowing recs from professional contacts we interact with regularly in our work. Most have had 1 or 2 jobs already. It’s a fairly transient business with most of your first jobs filling out grunt work on month or 3 long projects.
Obviously anecdotes are not data, but there you go. Rarely look at majors, except for technical-skill-specific roles.
If that’s what you’re looking for, it almost makes you wonder why not hire people straight out of high school? Everyone should graduate high school with basic word-office skills. I think most people, either have good people skills by the time than graduate high school, or else they never develop them. Likewise, many people already have good organizational skills when they graduate HS. Communication skills is the only area, which seems like it’s developed in college to any meaningful degree, and I’m not entirely convinced of that.
“If they are willing to move to a city with a thriving biotech or pharma industry, the bio and chemistry majors can get entry-level jobs in the R&D labs at those companies. Degrees from elite colleges are not required.”
I would amend this to say that being willing to move in general,or maybe to stay in a less-than-trendy place, is probably pretty helpful. If you want to live in a trendy city on the coast, you’re going to have more competition. Also, the rent is going to be too d*** high 
@northwesty your ratio should compare yield for RD vs the Acceptance Rate.
Gaming a high percentage of the class ED simply skews the number.
But a better number would show:
how many want in the club (# applications)
Multiplied by
RD Yield Rate
So what? College is not vocational school. It can be if you want it to, if you get a degree in, say, pharmacy, engineering, physical therapy, or computer science. It never occurred to me that an American Studies major has to get a job studying Americans.
There are thousands of jobs and industries that require no specific college major. Off the top of my head:
Advertising
Public Relations
Journalism (although college newspaper experience is needed)
Banking
Sales
Information product management
Client relations for a big company
Human Resources
Corporate Communications
Training and Development
Operations/Office Management
Fundraising
Nonprofit management
Market research
Corporate Social Responsibility
Procurement
Benefits management
It may be difficult for a Classics major from East Podunk State to get hired by Google, Goldman Sachs, Bain or whatever your favorite brand-name employer is, right out of college. Here, though, are some actual-factual recent success stories. Only one of the kids actually went to anything like East Podunk:
BFA Dance major at a Midwestern state flagship. Could not stick with any ballet company. Got a job in state government in a very unpopular backwater state capital. Worked hard, learned her stuff, worked on a project with Accenture and got hired by them to work on projects for other government clients
Leisure Studies major (with a minor in partying, and maybe a mild LD) at a Midwestern directional public. Could not turn any of her hotel-industry internships into a job (not that she had enjoyed any of the internships). Got a second cousin (who, herself, had double-majored in skiing and partying at a public university) to hire her as a gofer in a tiny ad agency in a backwater college town, working for practically nothing. Taught herself event planning, did a good job at a few events. Applied to and was hired by a larger agency for a lot more money, Did a professional job at regional events, Was nice, calm, low key; people liked her. Was recruited by a major international ad agency in NYC for a fabulous salary, and does stuff like plan world tours for Katy Perry.
Political Science major/baseball jock at a good LAC (but not household name). Spent two years playing low-level pro ball and not succeeding well enough to advance. Through network, got hired as a driver for a long-shot candidate in a primary for statewide office. At that point, he was the campaign’s only full-time employee, being paid peanuts.(He lived with his parents when he wasn’t on the road.) She lost the primary, but won the respect of the primary winner, and she (and her driver) got hired by his campaign. That candidate won the general election, the former candidate got a high position on his team, and her driver became her executive assistant doing all kinds of interesting things. A few years later she ran for another office, and this time he was her chief of staff and hired and supervised her driver (and other lackeys). Ultimately, she lost that election, too. She joined a venture capital firm as a partner, and brought him in as an associate.
Double-degree BFA Dance / BA Journalism at a West Coast directional public. Spent 5-6 years trying to make it as a dancer/choreographer in a major West Coast city. (She had spent a summer in NYC with one dance production during her college years, and decided she couldn’t live there. Not LA, either.) She almost succeeded – she was able to support herself and pay college loans, but was never able to get completely away from menial day jobs, and she knew her career as a dancer had a use-by date that was visible on the horizon, especially if she wanted to have kids. Networking with other creative people, she learned flower arranging, and made herself part of a hip flower community. She started her own business as a floral designer and is doing extremely well; she turns away customers and has hired some helpers. (It was a good move to start her business just as a lot of women she knew, and a lot of friends of women she knew, were getting married.) She promotes herself extensively via a blog and other internet activity.
Some of the lessons: Don’t have too much debt. Live frugally. Be flexible. Make yourself part of some community, and go with the flow, see where it takes you. Work hard and seize opportunities when they come.
Out of curiosity what are your opinions on job offers that are entry level and could be great stepping stones, but are low pay and situated in cities with very high costs of living. One example I read was of a recent engineering graduate who got an offer from Tesla in Silicone Valley who turned down the offer because the pay was low (relatively speaking) in relation to the cost of living. I personally think he was nuts and could have come up with ways to make it more affordable to live there even if just for a couple of years. Another example hypothetically are unpaid/low paid internships.
“Seriously, no ideas but law school? If we don’t have vision, how do we expect to help our kids?”
Well, there is business school. A BA in say Classics or History coupled with a decent MBA could get you started on any number successful career paths in business. But if you want to stay in the field of Classics then your options are pretty much limited to high school Latin teacher or college professor of Classics. Same for History…
Most kids who study history don’t become historians. Scipio, you have a seriously narrow view of the employment market. And top business schools all require a few years of work experience- so even if the goal is ultimately an MBA, a kid still needs to find a job.
Nobody on CC likes to talk about the hospitality industry but there are thousands of entry level leading to management roles at hotel chains, rental car, theme park, etc. companies. Yes, you start at the bottom. But how else to be a general manager or head of a corporate function at a large company dealing with people if you’ve never been in a front-facing customer service role? And kids with some moxie who don’t mind starting in Dayton Ohio or Tulsa Oklahoma… until they get promoted to a major metro, can do very, very well. No grad school required.
@gwnorth
The the answer is “it depends.” Some graduates have huge student loans to pay off, others may be considering marriage/starting a family and have big financial obligations. People in these positions will likely need to have a job where they can net enough money after living expenses to cover all current and upcoming expenses. And some students need income from summer jobs to help pay for college expenses and just can’t afford to do unpaid/low paying internships. IMO taking a lower paying job to get experience or taking unpaid internships is a luxury not everyone can afford.
However, if it is just a case of living frugally for a while then I’d opt for the lower paying job to get experience. For example my S could make a good bit more elsewhere but he has a job at a large CPA firm that is great in terms of experience and training – for now he lives in a tiny apartment and is careful with his money but feels that his years there will pay off in the long run. But he was fortunate enough to graduate debt free (thank you merit aid) so can afford the luxury of staying to get the expreince. He also took unpaid internships during a summer when he was in college but we were able to support his doing so.
Actually, a fairly decent percentage, probably because I know a decent number of people in jobs with associated college majors or professional schools (e.g. engineering, computing, architecture, blue collar trades, firefighting, police, lawyer, physician, nurse). I would imagine that those doing jobs not obviously related to their college majors would be mostly those in general business (the kinds of stuff listed in #149), although some may have been business majors. I do know a minority of those in computing self-educated after an unrelated college major or no college at all.
Pretty sure that many general business jobs are fairly major-agnostic in terms of the skills actually needed on the job, though employers may want a college degree out of credentialism. However, the entry level job market for such jobs (and other major-agnostic jobs needing a college degree) is presumably quite competitive, since the graduates in every major without good major-specific job prospects are theoretically competing for them.
“Most kids who study history don’t become historians.”
Yeah, I know. That’s what I was referring to when I say the job prospects are very limited for Classics or History majors if they want to stay in the field they studied. This is in contrast to say Chemistry majors who can readily have long, successful careers as chemists with a bachelors degree. Same for CS, Accounting, Nursing, Engineering, Education, etc.
There are majors that mostly lead to jobs in that field, and there are majors that mostly don’t. It’s the latter group for which we repeatedly have lengthy threads about the job prospects, possible career paths, or lack thereof.
Because my HS junior is looking at some hard-to-get-into schools, many colleagues/ friends’ parents/ teachers are making comments like, “I got into Cornell but wanted to stay home and went to Stony Brook,” or “I regret not attending Notre Dame, which I got into,” or “I really should have gone to American, but I thought it was expensive.”
If my son is lucky enough to have options at the end of this process, I will be fine if he picks a state school above a big name school because he likes it better or finds it a better financial choice, but if he does, he better believe in it and be proud of it. If he has to answer the “where did you go to college” question with a “but I also got into,” then he is not proud enough of his college to attend it and should pick the other one. (Luckily, we can offer him that option without fear of financial ruin.)
I also am trying hard for him to visit and enjoy and see how he could get a great education at some schools that are easier to get into. I really do want him to apply to schools where he will be happy with any of them he gets into, and never feel like one of them is “second rate.” A school does not need a sky-high ranking and tiny admissions percentage to provide an awesome education.
Own and love your college choice. It does not matter what others think. And it requires no qualification/ justification when people ask where you went.
P.S. I went to Williams. Almost no one I encounter in daily life has even heard of it. They may assume it’s comparable to Adelphi or Hofstra or some other school they actually have heard of, here on Long Island. I don’t care if they don’t recognize its name. Williams gave me a great education. And I just answer, “Where’s that?” with “northwest corner of Massachusetts.” I don’t need to go around telling people, “Forbes ranks it above every school in the nation except Stanford, including every Ivy League member.” Why would I need to be a show-off? It would just come off as obnoxious anyway.
Hospitality can be tough, it’s much about satisfying individuals vs corporate goals. (At one point, my clients were major hotel chains, met plenty of front desk and back office folks. Mgt was pretty married to the job.)
But I agree too many here think too much in the box.
My kid’s experience with startups (we’re in the NE) is priceless. The attributes companies want are honed. Knowing how to learn, adapt, and color outside the lines is an it.
I could encourage her because I was social sci and worked in tech, some small, some biggies. Not just “support” roles, but the profit generating work.
This is so much like the college hunt. It’s not just about you and what you want, the age old CC question, “which college will get me into IB or med school?” Not about the ink. It’s about what you bring to the table. (Not just a degree.)