<p>Having seen a number of posts which imply that criticizing the president or the president’s policy is somehow anti-American, I thought I would share this sentiment from Teddy Roosevelt.</p>
<pre><code>
“Roosevelt in the Kansas City Star”, 149
May 7, 1918
</code></pre>
<p>When I see young people write or imply that we shouldn’t criticize the president in time of war, I wonder how much they have learned in civics and American history classes</p>
<p>Unfortunately, there isn’t a war - that ended in 2003. Now, just a hostile, aggresssive occupation. Coming to an end, though. They’ve cut and run from Anbar province (resulting in greater peace), and from Basra province (now controlled by pro-Iranian Badr brigades, and also at greater peace), and the rest is merely a matter of time. (Doesn’t matter if the U.S. “wins” or “loses”, since there isn’t a war, the result of the end of the occupation is the same.)</p>
<p>Instead of spouting off your Anti-Republican/Anti-war hatred (and I’m pretty damn sure you were referring to me in your OP Momfromme because I’ve been the only young person posting in the cafe about politics) why don’t you help the Iraqi children get school supplies and other vital necessities? Don’t you think that would be more beneficial than complaining about how ill-conceived the war is and constantly criticizing the President? (I don’t care if you criticize him, since he faces his own critic everyday in the mirror.)</p>
<p>Instead of telling young people like me to learn about American History, why don’t you do research on Iraq and its people other than what you hear and read in the media? Do you even know who Chaldeans or Assyrians are without having to google those terms in or rely on Wikipedia? You know about the Sunni’s and Sh’iites, but do you know the other groups of people who also live there? You can claim that you have a Ph.D (I’ll take your word for it) but I know possessors of Ph.D’s who have no idea who Chaldeans are. </p>
<p>By the way, I’ve taken AP US History, AP Comparative and US Government and AP European History and did very well in those classes, so your assumptions about young people are not entirely true. I think that you refuse to believe that there are intelligent, informed young people on these boards, as well as in post secondary education schools. Frankly, that’s sad.</p>
<p>Smurfgirl, I’m curious to hear what you think of President Roosevelt’s quote. He wrote it in the context of WWI, but I would think it could apply to any war and any president. Your thoughts?</p>
<p>“why don’t you help the Iraqi children get school supplies and other vital necessities?”</p>
<p>Smurfgirl - be careful here. I was helping Iraqi children get basic antibiotics and antidiarrheals, and repairing wastewater treatment facilities - all, by the way, in very proud violation of U.S. law - when you were likely still in diapers.</p>
<p>I’m pleased, however, when I hear others joining in these efforts, and hope they will continue their commitment once the cut-and-run is completed.</p>
<p>If you want me to apply it to GWB, I will be more than happy to do so.</p>
<p>I think that he hasn’t conducted his presidency in a bad way or a good way since he won the election in 2000. He knew that evil existed; he didn’t run away from it when we were attacked on 9/11. His reasons for going invading Iraq were based on faulty intelligence that was given to him. Not only did the nation’s leading Democrats vote for the war and initially supported it, 30 other nations also supported it. So to say that he lied, would be untrue. Everyone is so quick to believe Bill Clinton, but not Bush. Both have ignored threats (Bill Clinton: Bin Laden, Bush: not focusing on Bin Laden right now). He has spent too much money though, (surprise! I don’t agree with him 100%) and I think he should be tougher on illegal immigration.</p>
<p>We won’t know if invading Iraq was absolutely wrong or right until a lot later since we are experiencing short term effects at the moment so we cannot praise him or insult him at the moment. </p>
<p>I don’t agree with the fact that you cannot stand behind the President though. I think that you have to have some faith in our President or else this nation as a whole will crumble. But at the same time, you cannot put all of your faith into the President, because he is just one person who has millions of lives in his hands and being stubborn can be a good thing, but it can also have detrimental effects. So we must also be critical of the President when we believe his stubborness might block his objectivity. </p>
<p>I’m probably way off here (lack of sleep due to Daylight Savings Time). Now answer my question: Have you heard of Chaldeans or Assyrians or is this your first time hearing about these two groups from Iraq?</p>
<p>However, now that we are in this war we should support our troops and what they are doing.</p>
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<p>Mini-</p>
<p>I was referring to the OP, not you. However, I encourage everyone to help out the families in Iraq who are sufferring right now. If you really care about the wellbeing of all humans, enough to protest against a war, this should not be a waste of your time and is more beneficial than protesting. We all know that protesting won’t do a damn thing, (Congress is at war with each other), but helping those children will ensure them a good future.</p>
<p>“I was referring to the OP, not you. However, I encourage everyone to help out the families in Iraq who are sufferring right now. If you really care about the wellbeing of all humans, enough to protest against a war, this should not be a waste of your time.”</p>
<p>What leads you to believe that I’m not? (Although the bulk of my energies are in aiding the refugees, who are in far greater need. Two million of them created by the hostile, aggressive occupation by U.S. troops.)</p>
<p>“However, now that we are in this war we should support our troops and what they are doing.”</p>
<p>I do NOT support the troops or what they are doing, much as I did NOT support the Clinton genocide of 1992-1996.</p>
<p>Smurfgirl, The quote was about criticizing presidents in times of war. I guess your view is that until some more time passes and we can judge the Iraq war in the light of further developments, “we cannot praise or insult” a president – nor rationally criticize one either, I suppose.</p>
<p>Personally my views are more aligned with the views of President Teddy Roosevelt that, “To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”</p>
<p>Freedom of speech is a core American value, no? Or did we fight our revolution so that we could have a chief executive who could not be criticized by the people?</p>
<p>I was merely telling the OP that not all young people are about sex, drugs, and rock and roll. I’m tired of people assuming this about me and my generation. It sounds like your generation has no faith in me or my generation, whatsoever. No need to get your knickers in a twist.</p>
<p>Mini-
I never said you weren’t and I appreciate the fact that you are. Trust me, I really appreciate it. Most people (young people are guilty of this too) don’t. All they do is whine about our President but don’t know what the children and the families are going through right now. I’ll say it for the third time “thank you”.</p>
<p>Are you saying that I’m opposed to the first amendment? I am not (obviously, or else I would ask the mods to remove everyone’s posts who don’t agree with mine). </p>
<p>We can criticize or praise the President right now, but our praises/criticisms don’t appear in the history books and cannot be taken as fact. Future generations will judge whether we were right or wrong and if the President made the right choices.</p>
<p>Also, you never answered my question, so please answer it. =)</p>
<p>it is my opinion that you take too many liberties with SG by resorting to your flip judgments that are inevitably preceded by
coupled with rhetorical questions that end in
</p>
<p>…but that is just something that I suppose, I guess, no?</p>
<p>Smurfgirl:</p>
<p>I suggest you consider a wearing a helmet–if your hair-style allows it (for me it would be a complete hair disaster so, for the sake of fashion and style, I simply take my chances here, sans helmet).</p>
<p>Thanks for the clarification! So glad to hear that you don’t consider Republican President Teddy Roosevelt (who was sometimes quite the militarist) to exemplify “Anti-Republican/Anti-war hatred” and that you’ve changed your mind that “We won’t know if invading Iraq was absolutely wrong or right until a lot later since we are experiencing short term effects at the moment so we cannot praise him or insult [the president] at the moment.” [quotation marks show your words in above posts]</p>
<p>By the way, history books often do include contemporaneous views of the past, so the current debate certainly will be in future histories. And don’t expect a singular judgment in the future. We are still debating events from hundreds and thousands years ago.</p>
<p>I’m certainly glad we both agree that it’s more than ok to voice our objections to current policy and that doing so doesn’t indicate hatred or isn’t anti-military or any such thing. Those values are what made America a democratic model to the world, so we must uphold them, even when people’s views are strong.</p>
<p>Here’s another quote on the topic, this one from former Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor: “A state of war is not a blank check for the President.” </p>
<p>I’m bound and determined to keep this thread on topic, so I suggest that if you want to write about something else, then look for someone else on this thread to engage you on your question about groups in Iraq or start a new thread.</p>
<p>'All they do is whine about our President but don’t know what the children and the families are going through right now."</p>
<p>Best thing one can do for the people of Iraq right now is to get the hostile, aggressive occupiers to leave. The cut’n’run in Basra (with control given to the pro-Iranian Badr Brigades) has already made the situation there much more peaceful, as has the cut’n’run in Anbar province. No sense in sending pencils when the occupation is resulting the country’s destruction.</p>
<p>Excuse me, but when did I EVER say that I was pro-war? Just because I said you were anti-war? You have no idea what my stance is on that issue and my background, so please think before you type. You have no idea how I feel personally about this, and trust me, it’s not the views Bush followers have. </p>
<p>I PMed you that question and since you never answered it, I asked it on here (and it was on topic since you said young people don’t know American History very well and I asked you if you know who the groups in Iraq are. Your answer demonstrates whether you know World History or if you are a little rusty in that area). </p>
<p>So I will ask you again: Do you know who these groups are? If you don’t answer this via PM I’m going to assume you didn’t know until I brought it up. And if you don’t know, then you cannot criticize young people for not knowing History. (Do research on these groups and you will know why.)</p>
<p>Then we can get back to Teddy Roosevelt (or is it Sandra Day O’Conner now?)</p>
<p>And go ahead: engage me, challenge me, make me think.</p>
<p>I’m not sure if you’re addressing this to me, smurfgirl, since I never said that you were pro-war.</p>
<p>But if you were asking me to respond to your query, please note that I am just not going to get involved in a back and forth on facts that you deem relevant to the discussion. I am going to hold out the vain hope that we can talk about criticism in times of war, an issue that goes back quite a ways in the history of governments and will surely be with us many years hence.</p>
<p>By the way, here’s another quote I like, this time by a Cold War Democratic president who was a Navy veteran from WWII – “We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.” John F. Kennedy</p>
<p>And I don’t deem it relevant, IT IS relevant. You posed the arguement that young people don’t know US History very well based on a quote Roosevelt made. Now I am asking you if you know your World History based on two ethnic groups. These two ethnic groups and their origins have contributed a lot to America and the rest of the world. </p>
<p>Why are you dodging the question when all I want is a one word answer?</p>