Would your son prefer a tech-oriented school, such as RPI?
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Here is the list of priority for our family
- Strong Math major
- Minor - Latin
- Preferably California (in state tuition)
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I will look into this. I have not looked into this so far. Thank you
Half the CSUs and UC Riverside and Merced will probably be realistic.
I still have a hard time understanding the poor performance in eng and history. I know you said his school is difficult, but a 2 on the AP World Hist is not dependent on how hard the HS is and I canāt reconcile that with a 700+ verbal SAT score.
Regardless, even Math majors need to know how to read and write in college. Just saying, you may want to trouble shoot that a little more.
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It was for this reason that I suggested colleges with notably flexibe curricula. At schools of this type your son could take most ā or, in some cases, virtually all ā of his courses in fields such as mathematics, computer science, physics and classics.
Agreed. That is something I couldnāt find an answer to. He reads a lot and has a A in his Latin class consistently. Infact he is one of the top students in that class.
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3.6 weighted, or unweighted? Itās helpful if you give both.
Certainly there are CA schools he can get into - and theyāre good schools, for many fields. Iām not sure theyāre the ones that will have high concentrations of talented theoretical mathematicians, though. He might have an easier time finding his people at an OOS flagship that admits a wider ābandā of stats, but has top students at his level, and robust grad-level coursework that heāll be able to access.
For a very rough first pass, here are the public universities that have top-50 graduate programs in mathematics (per USNews - not sure if thereās a different ranking that is better for math?), but that still have somewhat forgiving undergraduate admissions that may work with a 3.6/1540. Some of these may be too āreachy,ā but others are definitely attainable:
- UW Madison
- U of Minnesota
- Ohio State
- Rutgers
- SUNY Stony Brook
- Indiana U
- Texas A&M
- Penn State
- Purdue
- U of Arizona
- U of Illinois, Chicago (not to be confused with UIUC, which also has a T50 grad program in math, but reachier undergrad admissions)
- U of Utah
- Michigan State
- U of Colorado, Boulder
Of these, Utah would almost certainly be the most affordable, because he would qualify for the WUE reciprocity tuition rate if his UW GPA is 3.5+, and if not, he could take their path to residency after the first year; either way, the total cost over four years would be similar to a UC. Utah also has a Classics major and minor with Latin emphasis. And SLC is an easy flight from any CA city.
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Thank you for this list. I will go through them. I used the link provided above to calculate the gpa.
OK - so you can get similar cost at many schools because you have WUE as a California resident.
Many schools will have a strong math major. I think youāre making an assumption that CA schools do and others donāt. That is far from the case.
As the SAT will not matter - itās likely that Merced and Riverside are possible. Others can answer better.
UCR has a minor in classical studies. You can see if Latin is there (there is some latin). Iām not sure UCM has it.
You can check CSUs - but again, itās unlikely to be an SDSU, Cal Poly, etc. but more likely a Cal State Fullerton.
Your SAT can help out of state. At Alabama, for example, youāre cheaper than a California school. They have a latin minor.
Thereās over 100 schools on the WUE list with math and Iām sure some have latin (you can look) - schools like Colorado State U (tuition $20,670), U of Hawaii (tuition $11,000), U of Nevada (tuition $11,813), U of New Mexico (tuition $12,750), Oregon State (tuition $17,190), U of Utah ($13,655), and many more.
Your student will have options - and at prices below or at in state California. California schools donāt have the monopoly on great math programs.
Can you simply take each class - give a 4 for an A, 3 for a B.
Then take the total points and divide by the # of classes.
That will get you a true unweighted GPA vs. a UCLA GPA.
So if he has 10 As (40 points) and 5 Bs (15 point)s, he has 55 points and 15 classes so youād divide 55 / 15 to get a GPA 3.67.
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Should I include electives or just the core classes?
Preferably core courses - not ones like PE, etc. but if itās an academic elective - keep it in. But either way is fine - I just want to get an idea.
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Different WUE schools have different criteria to qualify for the scholarship. Oregon State, for example, offers it to only 30% of geographically-eligible admits; OPās son might well not make this cut. Utah has a 3.5UW cutoff (but also has the path-to-residency as an alternative).
To me, Utah looks like the school that has it all - a strong math program at both undergrad and grad levels, robust offerings in Latin, guaranteed to match UC in-state pricing, attainable admissions, and lots of strong peers. And a <2hr direct flight from any major CA airport.
I donāt think any other WUE school exceeds Utahās strength in math. And the other schools I listed, that are similarly strong in math, are more expensive and farther away.
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I think - if youāre trying to stay in a UCLA / UCB range - on the list from @aquapt,
UMN is possible to get close as my be Ohio State and Stony Brook.
Purdue will beat the price and has a large Asian population.
But thereās many schools - WUE (more than 100) and more - that can get to the low $40s price.
For a private, not quite there $ wise, you might want to look at U of Denver - which has a Latin Minor.
Edit -
just saw your note - I think many schools will be strong in math at the undergrad level - but I agree Utah is a fine choice - if the student likes the area, etc - and yes WUE is not assured.
If they want an assured cost, theyād have to go to schools with auto merit - like Bama, UAH and thereās more - but Latin would have to be looked at - so for example, a South Dakota School of Mines might not work. And then thereās - does the OP want a significant Asian population.
Purdue might be a fine choice but of course itās far from home. IU above is a fine choice but wonāt come in low 40s, etc. A school like Kansas could work as well from a cost POV and academics and itās a top Honors College.
I think a math major at the undergrad level, can happen from everywhere.
3.45 gpa, if I use this method
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OK - schools like Wisconsin wonāt happen and Minnesota will be tough - especially at budget. Arizona too. And Ohio State, Purdue, etc.
If it were me, to be at $42K-ish, Iād look at Kansas - itās a bit over 5% Asian.
If the GPA on the transcript for unweighted is a 3.5, Alabama - more than 1000 Californians go there. But they need a 3.5 on the transcript for you to get merit.
Out West, Iād look at UNLV, UNR, and UNM plus as I said thereās 100 schools + on the WUE program. Who has a Latin Minor - you need to look. You should go look at that list. U Hawaii might be a great fit!! Large Asian population with a Certificate in Classics.
Arizona State would be another -likely less than Arizona as the SAT would help with merit whereas it wonāt at Arizona.
Miami of Ohio could work but is rural and a small Asian population.
There will be many schools but you might need to think outside the box.
But youāll still have access to maybe UCR and UCM - and certainly some of the 2nd tier Cal State schools.
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Okay, so WUE discount at Utah probably wonāt happen, but thereās still the option to full-pay for the first year (approx 62K), take the path to residency (which involves staying for most of the summer - there are info sessions about how to do this) and then pay in-state rates (approx 39K) for years 2-4. So it averages out to around 45K/year.
Other WUE schools where youād get the discount even with his GPA, and which have T200 grad programs in math, include Colorado State (86), U of New Mexico (tied with Oregon State at 91), Utah State (117), U of Hawaii (125), U of Montana and Montana State (tied at 133), U of Colorado Denver (also 133, and not to be confused with the private U of Denver), U of Wyoming (tied at 144), U of Nevada Las Vegas (also 144), Portland State (152), North Dakota State (160), U of Idaho (173) and South Dakota State (186).
The auto-merit schools in Alabama are on this list too: UA-Tuscaloosa (91), UA-Birmingham (117), UA-Huntsville (152). His high SAT would give him some nice merit, even with the so-so GPA. Thereās also Southern Illinois (173), which charges in-state rates for all students. Iowa State (83) is also worth a look - the āsticker priceā is only 43K/year, and he would get at least 6-7K/year in auto-merit off of that.
By comparison, Riverside is ranked 66, Santa Cruz 73, Merced 125. (All lower than Utah, which sits at 43.) Maybe @Gumbymom can weigh in on which of these, if any, will be possible. My guess is that only Merced will come through, and thereās no Latin there.
Of course, it isnāt necessary for a school to have a ranked grad program, in order to get a solid undergrad education in math. But your son is so advanced already that he will be reaching the graduate level in his coursework while heās still an undergrad, and you want him to have plenty of classes to take, peers at the same level who will challenge him, and strong faculty mentoring and research opportunities. Iām normally averse to rank-focused posting here, but I think graduate rankings are more meaningful than undergrad ones (which can be very āgarbage in, garbage outā), and I think strength at the grad level is relevant for your son.
He could also go the community college transfer route, of course. But heāll have few math classes left to take that CC will offer, and if he doesnāt do well in his non-STEM GE classes, heāll be back in the same boat for transfer admissions. Going to a 4-year school that he can get into and afford seems like a much better plan for his situation.
I havenāt dug into which of the many schools above have robust Latin programs, other than that I know Portland State does in addition to Utah.
For a kid who loves Latin and Math, Iād also be wondering about whether heād like Linguistics. Have him check out past problems and solutions from the NACLO competition to see whether they intrigue him. This could potentially be another area of interest to filter for when looking at schools. Utah is solid here too, with a major and minor, plus a computational linguistics certificate that is more CS-heavy.
Lastly, this is outside of my wheelhouse, but my understanding is that admission to UK schools is based mainly on test scores. If he has at least 3-5 AP scores of 5 in addition to his 1540, he might be able to get into strong programs there; and once in, he would not have the onerous distribution requirements in areas of non-interest that he would have in the US - their undergrad programs are much more narrowly focused, which it sounds as if he would like. Not sure if this is something youād want to consider, but apart from the distance, it might fit his profile.
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@aquapt thank you for your detailed reply. This helps a lot. You gave me a new line of thought process. Thank you.
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Maybe I missed itā¦but does this student have any idea what he wants to be when he gets out of college? IOW, what does he plan to do with his strengths in math and science?
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Iām confused on GPAā¦.OP, have you calculated the UC GPAs at the link that ucbalumnus posted in the first response in this thread?
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