About someone who has given up philosophy applications

<p>I found the following story on other site. I would like to know what you think of it:</p>

<p>"I’ve discovered that applying to philosophy PhD programs is much like raising a child: one can be very conscientious and always try to do the “right thing” and still fail at it.</p>

<p>I applied to PhD programs three times: once immediately after finishing my undergraduate degree in philosophy, once a couple of years after finishing my undergraduate degree, and once immediately after finishing an M.A. at a well-respected terminal master’s program in philosophy. The first time I was denied outright by all eleven schools to which I applied. The second time, I was denied by all 8 PhD programs I applied to, but was admitted to two M.A. programs (one not in philosophy, but at a top 3 school for philosophy, the other was a fully-funded TA ship). The third time, I was denied by 10 PhD programs, waitlisted and one, and accepted at one program (ranked at the time around 40) without any funding.</p>

<p>All three times, my peers and my professors considered me one of the best students in the program (at least at the time. I have no delusions about being the “best student they had ever seen”). As I mentioned before, I did “all the right things”: I took extra courses, presented papers at conferences, worked to help professors with books and papers they were publishing. I never made a grade below a ‘B’ in any course throughout my academic career, and only three out of 26 of the philosophy courses I have taken earned grades below an ‘A’. My GRE scores were well above average all three times. Every part of my application was better each time I applied. I tutored students in philosophy. I won academic awards, filled in for professors to teach, etc., etc. Moreover, I did many of these things not because I was thinking at the time “This will help me get into a PhD program.”, but because I loved philosophy.</p>

<p>My experience was incredibly demoralizing, especially after my third try, when I had successfully completed an MA. It was also very expensive. I estimate that I spent around $5000 total just applying to PhD programs over the years (if you factor in things like postage, fees for GRE scores, etc.).</p>

<p>After applying three times, I have given up for now. Maybe I’ll try again a few years down the road (possibly in a discipline other than philosophy). But the application process remains a total mystery to me and seems fairly arbitrary. I have learned a few things my three times, but nothing that hasn’t already been said above. Just know that sometimes, it doesn’t work out. You can heed all the advice and work as hard as you can at something and still fail miserably. Over and over. This is depressing to me, because philosophy is definitely my “first love”. It is a shame that not everyone who loves philosophy so can make a career of it. "</p>

<p>Where did you find this story?</p>

<p>For those interested in Phil PHD admissions, I highly recommend this blog:</p>

<p><a href=“http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/[/url]”>http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>There have been a lot of recent posts (by professors at PHD programs) about admissions.</p>

<p>I took this story exactly from the website you suggested…
<a href=“http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2007/04/phd_admissions__1.html[/url]”>http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2007/04/phd_admissions__1.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2007/04/phd_admissions__1.html[/url]”>http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2007/04/phd_admissions__1.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>/blog/2007/04/phd<em>admissions</em>_1.html</p>

<p>Two things about Philosophy PhD’s:</p>

<p>1) They are some of the most notoriously hard to get into, even at third tier schools. I think the only area that is consistently harder is Clinical Psychology.</p>

<p>2) Admissions depend little on quantitative factors such as grades or GRE scores. The person who wrote the above story about his/her rejection experiences said something to the effect of “I had above average GRE scores and almost all “A’s” in undergrad.” That is great if you are applying for hard sciences, but it doesn’t mean much when applying for a Philosophy PhD. I am fairly sure she would have gotten in on one of the three tries if she had letters of recommendation saying “This student is extremely smart” rather than “This student got alot of A’s.”</p>

<p>PhD’s are always hard to get into, with hundreds of qualified applicants applying for very few spots. How some people still find a way to say “How on EARTH did I not get in?” shocks me. PhD’s are NOT masters programs–you don’t just show up with solid grades and good LOR’s and get accepted. Very qualified people get rejected from PhD programs all the time, especially Philosophy PhD’s.</p>

<p>This story is extremely depressing - especially for someone who’s hoping to study philosophy at grad school in 4 years!</p>

<p>Hey, badman, take a look at the whole thread from which I took the story:</p>

<p><a href=“http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2007/04/phd_admissions__1.html[/url]”>http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2007/04/phd_admissions__1.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Well, it seems I will never be able to type the full address of the blog from which i took that story. Anyway, I reproduce here the original post in that blog that has caused a very long and interesting discussion (interesting not only for philosophy majors):</p>

<p>"A student who was unsuccessful in his applications to PhD programs writes:</p>

<pre><code>Would members of admissions committees be willing to share any information about the admissions process for their philosophy programs? For example, it would be helpful to know how many applicants and admitted students a given program had; whether they use GPA and GRE scores as an initial screen, and what numbers would pass that screen; whether they favor or disfavor applicants with other graduate degrees, such as an M.A. in philosophy or a law degree; whether they prefer applicants right out of undergrad or with work or other experience; or any other information they think might be helpful to applicants who are deciding where to apply.

I ask because I applied to 9 programs for 2007 and was denied admission to all of them, and I gather from various message boards, such as gradstudent.cafe and Who Got In? Philosophy, that many other students were shut out this year and that several successful applicants were applying again after being shut out last year. If I had known just how selective some of the programs I applied to were, I would have applied more cautiously. Just to give a few examples, I understand that Rutgers had 284 applicants for 7 places, Cornell had 240 for 6, and Toronto had 400 for 14. I’ve learned that I overreached this year, but I still don’t know which programs are reasonably within my reach. If visitors to your blog could shed some light on how selective their schools are and/or what they want and don’t want in applicants, it would be very helpful to me and other would-be grad students.

I would greatly appreciate your posting this, as I’ve seen such questions generate many illuminating comments in the past. Being shut out for a year is a tough way to learn that you and/or your advisers have an unreasonably lofty notion of your admissibility, and I think that making more information available about the harsh realities of the admissions process might spare others from suffering the same fate.
</code></pre>

<p>Non-anonymous posts only, and please post only once. Comments should appear within about 24 hours, usually sooner.</p>

<p>Posted by Brian Leiter on April 03, 2007 at 09:33 AM in Philosophy Updates | Permalink "</p>

<p>I think alot of grad applicants just need to be realistic. If the program you are applying to has 400 applicants for 14 spots, chances are you are not getting in, no matter how excellent your creditentials are. With odds like that, it is a shock anyone can actually be blindsided when they get denied.</p>

<p>Sartre failed his first entrance exam.</p>

<p>Just saying.</p>

<p>And I believe Sartre would have never been accepted by any of the philosophy programs that rejected me this year, for he would never write a paper according to the rules that the required writing sample is supposed to follow…</p>