Why do some people not consider top 50 lac good instead of 25? I think some top 50 lacs are good compared to top 50 NU as Denison can be compared to Brandeis
There are some lists that rank LACs and larger universities together. Forbes does it, although the most recent year I can find is 2019.
On that list, Brandeis is #96, while Denison is #153. Brandeis is ranked close to LACs like Colorado College (#92) and Skidmore (#101). Denison is ranked with larger schools like Fordham (#141), U Colorado Boulder (#146), and Syracuse (#156).
Also, I’m not sure if the NU link in your first post was a typo or not, but Northwestern is ranked #17 on the Forbes list. That places it in a group with LACs like Williams (#19) and Pomona (#12).
i though forbes ranking is somewhat interesting since they rank northeasten ( #49 NU) too low, somewhat around # 182
i mean national universities that is a typo fault
I wouldn’t jump to say Northeastern is ranked too low, or too high. Different organizations utilize different methodologies when ranking universities. Some give significant merit for perceived prestige, while others use other metrics to account for prestige.
For instance, the Forbes list tries to use measurables like Academic Success and American Leaders to account for a perceived prestige marker. You can see descriptions of Forbes’ methodology at the bottom of each page of their list. Also, Forbes gives significant weight to the financial payoff (cost, debt, salary) of each institution’s students.
When we were knee-deep in a college search, I found it very interesting how some colleges’ rankings fluctuated greatly from source to source.
Don’t forget that when LACs are included in the mix, every school will be moved down to allow for that integration. A ranking of #70 on a segregated list might very well be comparable to a ranking of #160 on a combined list.
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so do u think that lacs be good enough compare to national universities ?
Yes. In some ways they offer a better education for undergraduates (since that’s their focus). However they usually have fewer students and sports aren’t important there.
A LAC ranked 40 to 50 will offer a superior undergrad education, with small, interactive classes, residential life, etc. So if you’re worried it wouldn’t be challenging or rewarding enough for someone interested in, say, Brandeis or Northeastern, rest easy. However the culture is very different from, say, Northeastern (which is very preprofessional since most students attend for the co-OP system).
In addition, they tend to have very devoted alumni, which makes for a strong alumni network.
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tks
Definitely.
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tks
There are lots of reasons for this misperception that LACs aren’t as good as universities.
-People who know about LACs understand they are great places to be educated. Many people, however, simply don’t know they exist. Or they don’t understand that they offer a BA or BS degree.
-They equate “university” with prestige, and think LACs are some kind of “college lite.”
-They don’t understand that LACs can (and in many cases, do) offer a superior educational experience. LACs tend to have small classes right from the start and students are more easily able to engage in discussion (which is almost impossible in a large lecture hall) with other students and professors.
Your original question about top 50 LACs versus top 25 is harder to answer. Students who graduate from the very best LACs are often headed to the same careers that students from top universities are. Those kids will be interviewing for the same jobs as grads from much more well known universities. But because there isn’t as much name recognition in the general public, many people just assume if they haven’t heard of a college, it isn’t worth graduating from. It’s worth understanding though that employers and grad schools usually understand that a degree form an LAC is just the same as a degree from a university.
If you like an LAC ranked 40, I don’t think there is going to be a ton of difference between that and a college ranked 20. At some point, you will want to consider if you feel the college is going to be a good return of investment. That’s where merit awards might come into play. For example, if money was no object, I would pay full price for a college like Bowdoin, but I’m not sure I’d pay full price for a college like Union, even though it’s a wonderful school. However, if my goal was to get an engineering degree, I would put Union well above Bowdoin, which doesn’t have engineering.
I think you should do your research and think about what matters to you. Look at postgrad outcomes. Check out Niche, which uses student reviews to create rankings on various colleges.
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To the OP question…why don’t some people…
Because they don’t know any better.
Rankings are designed to sell or promote something else. They are changed year after year slightly to ensure the lists change. Our child attended a Forbes top 3 school (based on Freshman ranking) that is now struggling to be a top 25 school. Does any of that matter…not in the least.
Bowdoin and Reed and Swarthmore and Williams…are unknown to a majority of people. They are unknown to many very senior executives at some very large companies…but they known and appreciated by enough people that you can attend any of them and be very proud. There are many who do know the value of small LAC’s.
There are those…like me…who have prioritized LAC grads in hiring, and are thrilled so many don’t know what they’re missing. It all works out. Go where you want to go and study what you want to study…don’t buy labels.
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One can receive an excellent education at a National University, an LAC, or at the local library, or even at home on one’s computer.
Whether or not it is a “misperception that LACs aren’t as good as universities” depends upon which aspects of the educational experience are being rated.
Simply stated: National Universities offer more resources and more breadth of opportunity than do LACs.
Universities do have more prestige and LACs are regarded as a kind of “college lite” for a variety of reasons, but mostly due to the fact that LACs are more similar to a high school experience in terms of size and offerings.
Also, due to size, it is more efficient for companies to recruit at universities than it is at a small, rural LAC.
The first year experience at an LAC, however, is an easier transition from high school than is the first year experience at a large university.
Nevertheless, whether a National University or an LAC is the better option depends upon the individual. But, with respect to prestige, resources, and breadth of offerings, National Universities offer more than do LACs.
P.S. I have attended and earned degrees from both an LAC and from a National University. Personally, I found the LAC (rural with about 2,300 students) to be a suffocating experience, while I found the National University to be an exhilarating experience. But, I am not you. Your experience may differ.
My guess is that you haven’t attended a Top 50 LAC if you think it’s like a high school. I’m sorry you were suffocated at your LAC but it doesn’t make what you said true even if your experience and memories make it so to you.
Actually, even a top 100 LAC is very different from high school in intensity, challenge, peers, atmosphere, resources, campus size, professors’ work and qualification, about anything you can think of.
As for resources, remember it’s per students, and the grad students aren’t there to have priority over undergrads.
Both types of colleges cater to different types of students, but what you said most definitely doesn’t apply to Northeastern or Brandeis v. Denison (the colleges this student is talking about).
Unless you think a 100,000 seat stadium and D1 sports define “university experience”, this is not a fair characterization and not good advice for a student who seems to only have access to ranking lists.
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You guessed wrong.
OP - Don’t worry about the rankings. You can get a great education at any number of amazing schools.
Worry more about fit for you academic goals/intended major.
I think the LAC vs University debate is getting very old. There is no “one” best type of school. The beauty of higher ed in the US is that we have lots of options, and students can find the right fit where they can flourish and be successful.
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Then your bad memories are playing tricks on you.
Seriously.
Perhaps some of the bad memories are coloring everything else. I hope you can go back to that college and attend a couple classes during Alumni weekend, so that you can reclaim some positive memories. I don’t know what else to say because some of what you said above just doesn’t seem to reflect what young people experience and it doesn’t help the OP to say LACs are “college lite” or “like high schools”, because they’re not.
@waittheday= the difference is “fit”. That is, some students really want to be in a college town with other students and others want to be in a city, others want to be in the snow half the school year while others hate the idea, some students want to be one among 300 in a lecture hall and one among 100,000 in a stadium while others would rather be one in a class of 12 where they can’t hide and don’t think spectator sports are that exciting, some really want classmates who focus on jobs, others want to do research in a lab, etc.
On a large public campus you usually have a mix of students. At a private university like Northeastern “fit” becomes more apparent and at LACs it becomes very important.
You have to know yourself and figure out what environment is best for you.
Brandeis BTW is a different case: it is small and both student-focused and research-focused, so it’s in-between a LAC and a national university.
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I agree with @momofboiler1.
@MYOS1634: Reducing the difference to a large capacity sports stadium & DI sports offerings is unfair.
Whether or not an LAC experience is similar to one’s high school experience depends in large part upon one’s high school experience. My high school was a private college prep school.
P.S. @MYOS1634: Please don’t patronize me. One’s LAC experience can be good or bad without fitting into your described scenario. I did not like the rural location and I disliked seeing the same faces day after day. I did not enjoy the lack of course offerings and I disliked the lack of grad students on campus.
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I don’t know why it’s always necessary to gild the lily whenever this subject comes up. T50 LACs are not “like high schools” - unless your high school happens to have a billion dollar endowment and regularly sends graduates to Wall Street, the US Senate, Hollywood and to top scientific agencies like the FDA.
I have attended and earned degrees from both an LAC and from a National University and found the university to be crowded at nearly all hours of the day and night and almost totally bereft of green space, natural landmarks, or any sense of community. The president of my college still remembers my name while I highly doubt the dean of my T10 law school ever did even when he was still alive. YMMV.
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