Abraham Lincoln's Standardized Test Scores

College Confidential Community
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<p>Lackadaisy,</p>

<p>Your points are most certainly true but I don’t see how it’s relevant to what I was saying, if it was meant to be.</p>

<p>Obviously asians had no direct role in the suppressing, and AA is not to punish, it is meant to help. There are obviously flaws in AA, but they cannot be addressed with an economic AA. As I stated in another thread:</p>

<p>"I adamantly contend that if Affirmative Action was abolished, diversity levels would drop in top tier schools. Why? Consider:</p>

<p>According to data from the Census bureau
( <a href=“http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104552.html[/url]”>http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104552.html&lt;/a&gt; )</p>

<p>As of 2005, rough 2,114 thousand black households are within the 35K to 50K bracket as opposed to 13,944 thousand white households within that same bracket. That is roughly a 15:100 ratio. Assuming one child from each of these households, you have 15 blacks competing with 100 whites for x amount of spots. If we adjust for the “Achievement Gap” in terms of Academics, which places those 15 blacks academically lower than the 100 whites in terms of SATs, GPA, etc, the blacks have even less of a chance of competing with 100 whites. The immensity of such a problem is evident, the blacks would no longer have the advantage of being considered based on race; </p>

<p>IF considered based on INCOME, there is absolutely NO ADVANTAGE and with lower average academic scores, there is VERY LITTLE advantage. </p>

<p>Of course, there are blacks who are in the higher income brackets. But the median income for blacks is 17696 less than the median for whites. In addition, there are only 1092 thousand black households with an income over 100K, as opposed to 17,126 thousand white households within that same bracket, a ratio of roughly 54:856. Therefore, for every upper bracket black, there are FAR more upper income whites.</p>

<p>Thus it is clear that for every black of higher socioeconomic status, there are far more whites competing for the same spot of the same status. And for every black of low income there are many more whites competing for the same spot. Adjusted for the Achievement Gap, according to which on average blacks perform worse than whites, without AA and with a system based purely on socioeconomic status, blacks would be present in extremely small amounts."</p>

<p>I am in no way trying to imply that Asians are not individuals, because that goes against all my beliefs. However I do believe that SAT scores and high GPA+rank do not separate one from the pack in Elite school admissions. That’s why I disagree with everything Jian Li contended. </p>

<p>** But the point of this topic ** is not affirmative action or discrimination so much as the fact that people keep makingconjetures and assumptions based on limited evidence, and attributing such narrow pictures of a whole candidate to “entitlement”. Colleges are not strictly meritocratic in a quantitative sense, nor can they be. That’s why it is important to know the facts before taking up a rallying cry of unfair admissions.</p>

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<p>Derrick, I realize you are trying to say something but nobody understand what it is. Expect that you hate Asians.
It’s a well renouned fact that race is a significant factor in the admissions process. Period.</p>

<p>Stop greiving, and stop hating on Asians.</p>

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<p>Actually I have Asian friends, I’m a pretty decent student myself, and I’m not denying that race is a significant factor. Please read the whole discussion and ruminate before you post garbage.</p>

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<p>"Tell me, what made Jian Li unique from many other asian students who have a focus on science and math, are involved in a science activity like science Olympiad, have stellar board scores and class rank? Based on what we know, nothing. Call it fair or foul, but a student who was black and had the same credentials probably would have been admitted. Why? Because he or she would be unique among the pool of other African Americans, a pool in which 2400’s and stellar academics are not as common. "</p>

<p>Why should it matter whether he is Asian or black? Maybe if skin color is so important to diversity admission officers should also make sure to get a great mixture of hair and eye colors. Diversity should pertain more to applicants upbringings, strengths, whether academic; athletic; or artistic, and personal perspectives of the world as evidenced by their admission’s essays than any trait that is only skin deep.</p>

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<p>hmmm…are you Asian too?
And how cute. You hang out with Asians, bunch of “textureless math grinds”</p>

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<p>abe lincoln was a native american like te dangahhfeld-- UB UB – thats da way to represent</p>

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<p>Did I ever say that I think that Asians are textureless math grinds? I never even said that I personally thought that Jian Li is a textureless math grind. None of us know enough about his transcript to judge that. In fact, the closest I even came to saying that was that even if his ethnicity was absent, admissions officers might still label him as a textureless math grind.</p>

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<p>Jews were enslaved for thousands of years. We were also put to death en masse. I don’t believe that slavery quite compares to the Holocaust in terms of significance… or timeliness…</p>

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<p><a href=“http://www.tabunka.org/newsletter/black_racism.html[/url]”>http://www.tabunka.org/newsletter/black_racism.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>“At age ten, I immigrated from China to Oakland, California, a city filled with crime, poverty, and racial tension. In elementary school, I didn’t wear name-brand clothing or speak English. My name soon became “Ching Chong,” “Chinagirl,” and “Chow Mein.” Other children laughed at my language, my culture, my ethnicity, and my race. I said nothing.”</p>

<p>“On the sidewalks, black teenagers and adults would creep up behind 80-year-old Asians and frighten them with sing-song nonsense.”</p>

<p>No minority has it an easy time in America … not just african americans. Asian Americans were historically forced to endure harsh conditions as well - early California is a prime example and lets not even get started about what the Jews had to go through here and around the world.</p>

<p>Simply put, Jews and Asian Americans are being put down for breaking through these racist barriers and still becoming successful financially. History of suppression - every race has one … some are just ignored.</p>

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<p>Let me narrow the statement a tad more.</p>

<p>** cultural attitudes toward education ** is where the difference lies.</p>

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<p>Who’s cultural attitudes? Society at large, the same society that thinks Asians are great for grunt math work but are not fit to be leaders? Or would you be referring to black society, in which case african americans are rewarded for not putting enough emphasis on education? And since college admissions is a 0 sum game, Jews and Asians are PUNISHED because the cultures emphasize education? Huh?</p>

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<p>I actually think Lincoln would do rather well on the SAT. Certainly the CR and Writing sections, at least- the address that MBJ praised so highly bears an unmistakable resemblance to the Funeral Oration given by Pericles some 2000 years before. </p>

<p>

I think most people would agree with that. SAT scores are certainly no barrier at Bowdoin or Sarah Lawrence.</p>

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<p>Obviously if you are inserting your own opinions with such vehemency, it will do us both little good for me to assert mine, right?</p>

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<p>I don’t find it to be a true assertion that the decade long Holocaust was more harmful than 200 years of forced servitude, rape, pillaging, kidnapping, brainwashing, dehumanizing, forced assmilation, loss of any cultural ties and the subsequent 100 years of denied citizenship and human rights which has been the African-american experience in America.</p>

<p>I don’t think it is advantageous to any group to compare the horrors of inhumane acts. Just acknowledge that they were all horrible.</p>

<p>Just my 2 cents.</p>

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<p>Preach it, MR. Tubbz. ;)</p>

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<p>

Certainly the cultural ties gained by being in America are superior to those they lost. Even just a cursory look at Sub-Saharan Africa would make that visibly clear.</p>

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<p>Jian Li wasn’t accepted to Princeton. So what?</p>

<p>Is this the first time that an affluent upper-middle class applicant (Asian or not) from an overrepresented area (rich, suburban, NJ) with perfect scores and top 1% GPA has been rejected from a top school? </p>

<p>Is there really a significant difference in ability between an aplicant with a 2300 and a 2400?</p>

<p>Think about this as well; Jian Li wasn’t neccessarily ‘rejected’, he just wasn’t accepted this time around, at these specific schools. I’m sure if he did it 10 times in a row, he would be accepted to all different combinations of the top schools he applied to, as well as not offered acceptance to all different combinations. Unfortunately, he only has but one chance to go through the admissions process, and he had the god-awful luck of choosing between Yale and Caltech.</p>

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<p>

Here is the reason why I like standardized test scores. They can not be gamed, they can not be falsified, they correlate academic potential, they correlate intelligence, and they are cheap. Unlike virtually every other criteria, standardized tests are quickest, easiest way to understand someone’s potential. There is a high likelihood a 2400 test taker is more intelligent than a 1900 test taker. It’s as simple as that. It makes intuitive sense, and even anecdotally (ie: the intelligence/SAT score correlation seems accurate for the people I know) it works.</p>

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<p>

Actually, there might be. A 2400 means the test has been pegged. There might not be a big difference between a 2200 and a 2300 hundred, but there might be a massive difference between a 2300 and a 2400.</p>

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<p>I beg to differ with Mr. Payne:
when you take a people from a nation and isolate and strip them of any knowledge of their culture and ancestry it is not advantagoeous in any way- it ■■■■■■■ their growth as a culture and makes them ripe for enslavement and once liberated it still causes them to operate in a plantation mentality. Futhermore, blacks in America are the only ethnic group that is unable to claim national orgin. I can not say that my great grandmother was from Nigeria-NO, I am forced to say that my ancestors were slaves and that cultural ties to my ancestry is lost. Once again, not advantageous. </p>

<p>What cultural ties did Blacks gain in America? The high Western ideals of competition vs the communal living of African life, immorality, hyprocicy, individualism instead of brotherhood and materialism?<br>
Surely it can be assumed that these same ties would’ve been gained by staying in Africa and being imperialzied by Western Powers rather than being kidnapped and enslaved.</p>