Absolutely HORRIBLE high school counselors - help!

Parents Forum
41

Assume that all you get out of the GC is the minumum… so help them as much as possible.
Create a Brag Sheet (if your school doesn’t have this as part of the application process here is an example) https://www.collegeconfidential.com/a-brag-sheet-to-brag-about/
That gives the GC info to work with.

THey should be able to do the standard recommendations but apply early so they have time.
Let them know due dates.
Same deal with Scholarships…let them know due dates.
Follow up to make sure it is done.
Have your child ask if there is any more info they need or anythign that would make the scholarship applicaton easier.

42

@roycroftmom Well, I actually don’t think that my child should be the counselor’s priority. I usually only need to speak with her once or twice a year, and even that is like pulling teeth. My kids have a pretty diverse group of friends, and I’ve yet to hear any of them say they’ve actually received help from the counseling office. The complaints across the board, across all socio-economic groups at the school, tend to be the same. Unfortunately, the lower income families feel intimidated (many are second generation immigrants) and rarely question authority. Like I said earlier, other than the counseling department, it’s a fairly good school.

I’m sure you meant to be helpful, but saying that the counselors need to be more concerned with “avoiding prison, rape, and suicide” sounds like the school is some type of war zone. It isn’t. Excuse me for having a problem with someone not doing the job they’re paid to do. The issue really is much bigger than my family.

43

Our sons’ public school counselors were severely overworked. They don’t get to know that many of the kids under their purview. To do the LORs, they sent out a form to the juniors and patents. The students had to submit their ECs/awards, and the parents got an open-ended questionnaire asking about our S, if there were any special circumstances the counselor needed to know about (whether for disclosure or not in a LOR – i.e., an ill parent, the student is caring for young sibs after school, is working two jobs to help pay the family bills, etc.). I treated that questionnaire like a college essay and spent good time on it.

The counselors then spent part of their summer drafting those LORs, using the student and parent feedback to frame
the conversation.

In reality, the only thing we expected the GCs to do was to write the LOR and ensure that the registrar folks sent out the transcripts and teacher recs. We fully expected to deal with helping our sons create a list, assembling FA info, researching colleges/FA, offering feedback on essays if asked, etc. I had a big planner on the wall to track things. I briefly considered a private counselor, but I went to a seminar by one such person and was convinced I could do a better job if I did some research. That’s how I found CC, and 12 years later, I’m still here! At one point (and my sons were HS 2008 and 10), CC had a quick read service by a couple of the original founders, and that was a good reality check for reach/match/likely schools. It was under $100. Sent scores, grades, a writing sample, ECs and got back a several-page report with feedback. I assume that has been subsumed into something else.

Even “good” schools have kids who are affected by mental health issues, domestic violence, immigration issues, substance abuse, harassment, and the juvenile justice system.

44

It is not to say that schools are war zones, but @roycroftmom is correct that there are other needs in the school that take priority over college counseling.

Actually, primary role of counselors in schools is to provide service students with disabilities who have mandated related services counseling as part of their IEPs, especially where the social emotional is affecting the academics. This means they may have students that they meet with in either individual / group or both once or more a week for 30/40/45 minutes. Nothing else takes precedent over that; a counselor may get a slap on the wrist if they did not review your child’s college list but they will really take a hit for not servicing a SWD.

Another myth is that teachers and counselors are obligated to write recommendation letters, they are not. There is an assumption that they should be writing recommendation letter, but if you work in a public school, and are part of the UFT/AFT, it does not even address recommendation letter writing duties in your contract.

Sorry, but in some schools, there is not enough resources to service students who need counseling, are part of the court system, have ACS cases, immigration, mental illness, living in transitional housing, unaccompanied homeless youth, etc. and to do the full time college counseling. If the school has a short fall in their budget, they will always cut a counselor before they cut a teacher.

Another challenge is that many school systems have just recently started to provide training in college access for school counselors. Mainly because schools are now being evaluated on how their students fare two years post secondary. I know in NYS, NYSED is also has access to FAFSA completion and it is reported back to schools to make sure that underserved students are getting information about and assistance in applying for financial aid.

College access and college counseling is not something that they even discuss in grad school when it comes training counselors and very few people get to pick up this skill as part of their internship so many school counselors are learning college access on the job. Even then, they are to provide guidance, not do the work (the students and families are first in line). Because of the shortage of knowledgeable people who can do college access work, more schools are also getting help from CBOs in doing this work.

45

I’m still puzzled over what OP is expecting…she stated that some students from this high school were admitted to top colleges, so clearly at least the minimum paperwork is being accomplished at her school. Anything more than the minimum is discretionary and subject to other priorities. If she has been preparing for years for this, per her post, she already has spent more time and effort than a counselor could.

46

@indiethoughts

For reference…my kids went to a smaller, higher performing but not top performing high school.

You met with the GC to talk about classes for the year for your kid? That never happened at our school. The kids met with the GC. Parents didn’t. And it was never an issue. Some parents requested meetings with the GC, but it was not the norm at all.

So what? There are 3000 colleges or so on this country. You can’t expect your GC to have knowledge of all of them, the most selective of them, or even all of the ones in your region. Not possible.

“Familiar with anyone in admissions”…again…did you expect this? Why? First of all, employees in admissions change and secondly…this is again not the norm…

Private college counselors often have knowledge of admissions folks…but even they don’t know folks at every college.

So what? You have already stated that the GCs at your school are very busy…do you expect them to visit the local colleges too?

Yes, and that exaggeration simply meant…the GC didn’t know about what YOU wanted her to know about.

Yep…and that is exactly the norm for most public school GCs in terms of who they know best.

Our school used to have college fairs…and they stopped them.

If you can find a private college counselor to take on a HS senior…i say…go for it. I think you need to interview the folks…and make sure they have the expertise you expect before you hire someone.

47

There are just way too many colleges and scholarships out there for a GC to keep track of them all. You really do need to do your own research. The GCs usually have their hands full just helping the students get through their HS courses, it’s not realistic to think that they will nag and send repeated reminders to students about scholarship deadlines and/or track the status of their applications. They will give some pretty general info to students/parents regarding state scholarship awards and merit programs. It’s up to the students to follow through with it though.

48

My sense is OP was asking and concerned about the minimum being done - sending in transcripts and school reports in a timely manner to meet deadlines.

49

Yes, that was some of it…but even for that…we don’t have the whole story. And likely neither does the OP. For all we know…the student did not meet the SCHOOL deadline for requesting information be sent. Or the student didn’t follow up.

50

A suggestion:

Get three or four of the most vocal (but not obnoxious) parents together and write the principal and GC’s a note asking for a meeting to discuss ways of leveraging the time of the incredibly dedicated and hardworking guidance staff now that college application season is about to kick off.

Come to that meeting with each of the parents armed with two specific suggestions to off-load some of the work the GC’s are doing (or are supposed to be doing). It’s hard to say no to someone who is respectfully trying to help you. So one parent volunteers to organize an evening devoted to “what you need to know about financial aid”, getting a couple of the veteran parents to speak about “This is what FAFSA is” and “This is what a Pell Grant is”. Not to give advice (which isn’t appropriate coming from parents) but just an info session. Another parents volunteers to organize a team to review the data which the school is sending to colleges- (this information is often very out-dated and inaccurate) by working with the Superintendent’s office to update the information. Another parent volunteers to create a big spreadsheet system for any senior who wants it so the kid can track deadlines.

The administration will likely get defensive about a few things- but if the overall tone is “You guys are incredible and this college stuff is so darn time consuming we just don’t know how you do such a magnificent job and we want to help you now that our kids are going to be seniors” it’s tough to say no to a bunch of eager volunteers.

51

At S1’s HS, we met with his GC ONCE in HS. That was at the end of junior year to 1) make sure his senior year schedule would complete all his requirements for graduation, 2) get an idea of S’s college application list and 3) get the student and parent questionnaires for the LOR. This is at a school which has a highly selective admit STEM program (think 7-10% of applicants) within a socioeconomically diverse school of 3,000 and who routinely sends students to top schools. It’s a fair indicator of privilege to even be able to negotiate through the admissions process and to have the coursework necessary to get into such a program. This is in one of the top-performing school systems in one of the wealthiest counties in the country, but the challenges inside the school building are staggering. The GC was not buddies with admissions reps, did not have contacts to call if a student was waitlisted, didn’t know much about schools on the opposite coast. The vast, vast majority of high school seniors attend the local CC or state schools; this is a logical place for a GC to focus.

It was OUR job as a family to prepare for college, in the sense that I did a lot of legwork here and online about schools, FA and kept things on schedule, S went to presentations at his school, spent countless hours on researching schools and writing essays, brought his research efforts to fruition, went to presentations when admissions folks visited, went to see some schools, contacted profs when he wanted to sit in on classes, etc. We had the privilege of being able to spend the time on this effort, even as we were DIY-ing the process.

We never met with S2’s GC, who was at a similarly selective program at a different public school. She met with S2 to discuss senior year schedule and college list. We couldn’t even get them to evaluate him for an IEP (due to LDs which had been documented in first grade). He was in an elite program – they needed to direct their resources elsewhere. It shouldn’t have happened, but there we are.

The GC is not going to get your student admitted to college. The transcripts, LOR and rec will go out. The colleges have a system where your student can log in and ensure scores, transcripts, etc. have arrived. Your student, if a junior, should be asking teachers NOW if they will write a LOR. Some teachers will only do a limited number of letters, since it is not something teachers are compensated for and they spend their OWN TIME, often in the summer, taking the time to write a thoughtful letter. Your student is the one who will have to get into college. If your student is a “star,” congrats. If you have the money to pay a private counselor, congrats. Those are privileges many families don’t have.

My sister, who is a kindergarten instructional assistant in another part of the country, had to testify at the MURDER trial for one of her SIX-year-old students. She and the GC, as mandated reporters, had notified the school system and county of a potentially abusive situation. The county’s Child Protection Services dropped the ball and a child died. She still buys clothes and underwear for some of her kids every year in honor of that little boy. It’s been almost 20 years and she still cries for that child. So in my book, I assume the GCs in our lives had far more important things to do than making sure my fed, clothed, housed, bright and educated sons get into a top college.

52

@thumper1 I don’t expect the counselor to know about any of the schools my child is interested in, but I did think she might have at least heard of them, especially since two of them had recently visited several schools in our district. The district overall is low income, but there are several high income schools. Those schools have regular parent college info sessions and college rep visits. We get nothing. And yes, I do expect our counselors to visit the local colleges. They do at other schools in the district and it puts our students at a disadvantage when they aren’t given even basic information that other students get. Oh yeah, and I’m a taxpayer who has a hard time understanding why I live in a district that allows students who don’t live in the tony part of town or who don’t happen to get into lottery schools to struggle when it comes to college preparation. MY family can get around this, but a lot of others can’t.

I have a family member who works in a large hospital system with a similar problem. The satellite locations in poorer neighborhoods have lower standards of care than the shiny location that services a wealthier population. People there don’t complain about it because they have no idea that patients across town are getting superior care. It’s the same situation with the schools. Since I’m in analogy mode, let me also clarify that I completely understand that if I go to the school (or the local hospital) with a non-emergency situation, I’ll be triaged accordingly.

53

We had lots of issues with our GC at a large suburban public hs. She was terrible. My son frequently had to go over her head to the assistant principal for his grade to get her to fill things out. She was overworked. She had almost 200 Srs assigned to her as well as kids in the other 3 grades! She admitted she focused on the top 10 students, those with learning disabilities (son has dyslexia but was turned down for help because he had high grades - huge problem in TX), and minority students. She said she didn’t care about the other students and just did what the rules said she had to. She said this to my son’s face in front of others! The AP heard about it but his hands were tied. Grrrr.

Anyway our school uses Naviance and NOTHING can be done unless you go through it. You request teacher recommendations, transcripts, Common app items, GC recommendations through it. Parents and students fill out brag sheets and that is what the recommendation letters are written from. You are supposed to ask the teacher in advance that you are putting their names in. It was a nightmare for us because if you have something that falls outside what is in Naviance and you aren’t in one of the GC’s main focus groups you have to fight like crazy to get it done.

Transcripts for scholarships, teacher recommendations for scholarships, things needed for early acceptance to vet school (meaning we were filling our veterinary school applications - NOT even listed in Naviance) etc. Things were sent to the wrong college, not sent, sent late, sent missing information. We missed out on one big scholarship he could have gotten even though he was in her office about it and the AP tried to get it sent.

He did get into his preferred program with good scholarships but the GC did nothing for us. His teachers were wonderful! They gave us recommendation letters for the special items outside the system and were so sweet about it. I can’t say enough about them. I know our AP Bio teacher was a big reason he got into his preferred program! She was just a rude person. Other GCs in the school were better but you had to stick with the one you were assigned!

54

@blossom - I think an info session is not a bad idea. Our HS has had info sessions for both students and parents and it was a help. I graduated from HS nearly 35 years ago. To say that the college admissions process has changed is a majorly huge understatement. I feel as though we’ve been tripping along and lucking into things as we go. My son has done a fairly good job of requesting transcripts, tracking admissions portals and, of course, doing the work to qualify for merit aid, college admission, etc. I can see why someone would want to hire some sort of college consultant, though, because it is an awful lot for a parent or student to somehow just “know” to do.

The volunteers could present the information with the caveat that the parents/students really need to do their own research to verify specific dates and steps. Last thing on earth that I would want to do as a volunteer would be to give someone the wrong date or somehow miss a step in the process. Heck, why not allow some of the students who have navigated through the process successfully talk to their peers about it and give them some tips?

55

@blossom That sounds like a wonderful idea, but I’m not sure it would fly at the school. Two years ago a group of parents did get together and offered to help out during the first few weeks of school. We were concerned that so many students had requests for schedule changes that the counseling office had a line down the hallway. I imagine many schools have this kind of problem, but it’s magnified when you add a large number of immigrant families. We were told that they didn’t want parents in the counseling office because of the sensitive nature of issues they come across. We weren’t trying to do anything other than record student names and possibly the classes they wanted changed, which didn’t require any breach of confidentiality. Meanwhile, across town (same district), a friend volunteers weekly in the counselor’s office at her child’s school. I’ll run your suggestion by some other parents to see what they think.

56

I don’t think that the volunteers should present themselves as counselors or actually work in the GCs office. That isn’t their role. They can give general helpful tips like - “Colleges often give out merit awards based on GPA and test scores. Check out their websites to see which schools offer awards.” Believe it or not I did not know that.

57

Do I know you? LOL, my DD’s counselor is also pretty underwhelming. The kids are split up alphabetically, so I get the joy of having the same one for my DD21.

My main horror story is that the staff have TWO school emails (no one can tell me why). Apparently there are two Common App portals, one to each email. We typed in one email, but of course she only knew about the portal for the other one (she always emails me from the email we typed in). It took her a month to figure out there was a second portal - once she did, the CA got squared away. Two days later, we heard from her number one choice school about an interview. I was livid, but it all worked out. Now, of course, I am paranoid about DD21 and will ask the counselor which email to put in.

She is also really difficult to find, even by office staff.

I did figure out, for scholarship applications, that I could get sealed official copies of her transcript from the records lady in the office (bypassing the GC).

Anyway, just wanted to let you know I completely understand your wish to bypass an incompetent guidance counselor. I’m almost hoping DD21 does not apply to Common App schools, so we can send transcripts ourselves through Parchment.

58

Agree that many issues around confidentiality, etc. crop up if parents get too close to individual kids.

But surely there is a wealth of “generic” college information which can be helpful to first gen kids, no?

59

At my kids’ school, the Naviance was run by a parent volunteer. I think her kids had graduated several years earlier, but she just kept with it. I don’t think either of my kids used it because we didn’t really understand it and by the time it was explained, my kids had already selected their schools.

A very large suburban high school here (and where I finished my senior year many many years ago) has a guidance office that is above and beyond what anyone could expect. I think they have one or two counselors who just deal with the athletes, but those athletes are going to Ivies, ND, Stanford. and Duke, so the counselors have to be knowledgeable about those schools’ admissions policies too. They have several service academy applicants every year. I’m sure there are still parents who don’t think their kids are getting enough attention, that the GC are slow. That school is one of about 6-7 high schools in the district. The other schools are not getting that type of guidance office. They don’t all service the same type of students, with economic, social, and racial differences. This school has dedicated the resources to the guidance office and has parents who demand that level of service. Same district, different priorities in different schools.

60

@blossom - I think that there is a fair amount of generic info that could be given to a HS class as a whole. Start with instate schools. From there, a motivated kid should at least know what types of questions to ask OOS schools.