If you have a PTA or PTO the college info night can be done through them. I’d suggest invited several speakers who can talk briefly about different aspects of applying to colleges. (Price calculators, FAFSA, automatic scholarhsips, rolling vs SCEA vs regular EA vs ED, SAT and ACT deadlines, National Merit/PSAT dates, merit vs need based aid, in state vs out of state tuition and acceptance rates - and probably many more things I haven’t thought of.) Our school guidance office had a whole packet they gave to juniors near the end of the year. It also included links to websites, how Naviance works and some suggestions for books about essay writing, I’m sure there was more. You can do all that without concerns for privacy.
And once you volunteer to do all that-- the administration will be more inclined to see the parents as allies and not enemies.
My first kid’s GC told him not to bother to apply to the school where he got his bachelors.
My second kid…the GC had never heard of the school my kid was applying to…and had no…read that zero…information about the colleges she was interested in…the were all out of our region.
Both kids got accepted to the colleges of their choice…and actually got accepted to multiple colleges of their choice.
Yours will too.
Frankly, I think you should stop comparing YOUR kid’s school to other schools. The only time we made comparisons between high schools was when we were looking at places to purchase a home.
Your main goal is to get the GC to do the minimum required work in a timely manner. In my experience, it almost always is better to enlist an ally and then try to motivate an enemy. As others have tried to say, your kid’s GC likely has a lot on his/her plate. You don’t want to go in with the attitude that the GC is incompetent or not helpful; you want to be ever so thankful that the job gets done in a timely manner. Admittedly, that doesn’t always help and if you are really unlucky, you may still get nowhere.
Luckily, the common app keeps track of what has been submitted. Or the school’s application portal does as well. If the school profile or GC letter has not been submitted, you should be able to see that and follow up on it. You/your kid will really have to keep on top of that. One of my son’s teachers had a problem submitting the LOR through naviance and we had to follow up.
Even at our very good suburban HS, the GCs were not that helpful with college lists. That was our job. The GC provided a school report and counselor recommendation. In a big HS, I would think the teacher recommendations are going to carry much more weight - they really know your child…
Both of my kids’ schools had college nights for parents and students to learn about FA, admissions, etc. They also had multilingual advisors there to translate. I don’t know how well these actually worked (I didn’t attend), but I know they were very concerned about outreach.
I spoke at a parents meeting for juniors in S1’s program. Even among a group of PhD scientists and other professionals, there was surprisingly little awareness that our flagship was $25k a year (at the time). The looks on their faces were priceless.
Frankly, I think you should stop comparing YOUR kid’s school to other schools. The only time we made comparisons between high schools was when we were looking at places to purchase a home.
Normally, I’d agree, but in this case I think that the comparison was less about quality and more about duties. The compared schools are in the same district, which means it’s safe to say that their contracts are the same and their expected duties are the same. Within the same district, it’s apples to apples for the most part.
Despite what some on this thread have said, it IS the GC’s responsibility to fill out the GC form from the college. LORs are another matter, but the form the college intends to be filled out by no one but the GC is their obligation. Those forms, for those who haven’t seen one, are usually a set of boxes to check and questions asking to rate the student on a scale on things like academic and emotional preparedness for college. Things associated with college entrance have been part of the GCs job purview since at least the 60s/70s . . . I would know lol.
Absolutely agree!
As for volunteering, the state has rules about confidentiality in handling student records. You can’t.
I taught at a high school for 10 years. Then, I volunteered for my kids athletic teams for 11 years.
You sound like you have the time to help in a non confidential manner.
At our high school, they had a system for volunteers.
As a volunteer, you work with the PSTA (parent, student, teacher Association). You can help put together blank counseling info packs. You can volunteer for the parent print clubs, whereby you print out generic information packets that don’t involve student names or numbers.
Our 4 counselors handled 500 kids each. They relied on parent volunteers to hand out paperwork at info night. Parents also handled the coffee and snacks. Volunteers kept the college forms stocked (FAFSA info, meeting info, local CC application info, etc.) in the counseling offices. They made and posted colorful boards and signs all over the school with things like “FAFSA deadline is in two weeks!”, “Did you request your transcript from the Registrar?” They typed labels for admissions offices that were commonly applied to. Lots of time was saved by our parent volunteers.
My son didn’t involve us, AT ALL, in the process except when he asked, "how much will we be able to afford, and did you file your taxes yet? He got all of his LORs on his own, worked on Naviance, and kept his documents in his room, in his files, all on his own. I would find out about his legwork from his teachers: “AuntBea, can you tell your son, I’ve sent his common app LOR?”
It takes a village.
Even within the same school, the teachers and school counselor…heck…even the admins have different levels of contacts and experiences.
My guess is this GC IS doing the work she is expected to do. That does NOT mean meeting with each student’s parents twice a year, like this parent is doing. It does not mean making contacts at many many different colleges…some GCs have these contacts and some don’t. BUT no parent should rely on these to gain admission for their kid to any college. Even without personal contact…a GC can dvocate for a student…for example a student on a waitlist.
But does this parent expect the GC to have personal contacts with college adcoms that will help their student gain admission? Even many private school counselors don’t have that level of contact.
We had missing LOR, and transcripts…it was OUR KID’s job to monitor what was and wasn’t received by the colleges. I would only have gotten involved if something didn’t happen fateful a second request. That never happened.
This poster should make sure his kid applies on the early side…note…not early decision…but early. That way he will have LOTS of time to make sure the required documents get submitted.
It’s the last minute folks who could run into trouble.
Well, I decided to reach out to an administrator about my concerns. I was told that they’re aware of the problems and are looking into ways to make sure things improve. I also called a friend who told me not to worry, and that the counselors do not need to include personal recommendations on the form the school sends to colleges. I was mistaken in thinking the school report had to include a counselor’s LOR.
To address the issue of comparing schools, why shouldn’t I? Some of the schools in the district have great soccer teams, or a boatload of NMSF students, or more active PTAs, and I’m happy for them. I know all schools aren’t alike. However, if I’m in the same district, there shouldn’t be such a wide gap in what the counselors do.
Anyway, thanks to everyone for helping me to see this from different perspectives. It actually helped me decide to call the school to hear their side.
To address the issue of comparing schools, why shouldn’t I?
Yes, basics can be compared. As one stated here 4 counselors each with 500 kids. My kids high school was the same size but with 6 counselors and things went undone. I often wonder how they would have survived my high school of 5,000 with 4 counselors. The counselor I had as an incoming freshman (class of over 1,000) had us all 4 years. Which ever counselor had the senior class got the incoming freshman class. Funny how they managed to get things done in a timely fashion.
Many colleges require the counselor’s letter to accompany the school profile. Just Google “name of any college you lik” and " application checklist"to see if you need it. Comparisons are not particularly relevant if the school populations are dissimilar. That school with all the soccer stars might have more expertise in athletic recruiting; your’s mights have more expertise in pell grants. The counseling office likely tailors their process to the majority of students, not to outliers.
First, some reassurance - the “better” or at least the highly selective colleges admissions office likely knows a lot more about your local high school than you probably realize. They really don’t hold it against any applicant if the GC dept is overwhelmed.
I wanted to repeat the advice that it honey is better than vinegar in this kind of situation. While our HS GC’s were also over-worked and knew much more about the application process to Directional or Flagship State than they did to any of the private schools.
But we learned what to ask, and we made a point to thank them and remind them that we share the common goal - getting student accepted into the school that is best for their situation. It does not have to be adversarial, if they see you acknowledge their effort and work toward the same goal, they are more willing to help. Your kid is a success story - a bright spot compared to some of the issues they have to regularly deal with. When you talk with them in September, say things like “This is new to us - and since we hear that things change all the time, we appreciate your patience as we all can learn about this together - so any other kids will also benefit from what we all learn.”
And count your blessings - it is far better for your kid in a public school to have great teachers and poor GCs, instead of having a great GC but lousy teachers.
@thumper1 When did I say that I met with the counselor twice a year? I met with her once this year during DD’s yearly meeting to choose next year’s courses. I had to attend because her class schedule was messed up at the beginning of this year, and I was hoping to avoid it happening again. I did say that I only need to communicate with the counselors once or twice a year, and if they’d actually respond to emails or messages they wouldn’t have to ever see me in person.
Nowhere have I mentioned that I expected them to have relationships with adcoms to help with my child’s admissions. I was surprised that she didn’t know anyone in admissions at a nearby university. Why? I didn’t mention it, but when we toured the school on our own, I spoke with one of them. She asked where we were from and I told her. She said something to the effect of, “We visit several schools in your county, but we’ve never been there.” How difficult would it be to make a phone call and have our school added to the list?
It’s funny how you can assume that the GC is probably doing her job because that’s more than likely YOUR experience. It isn’t mine.
More broadly, I think schools should have guidance counselors AND college counselors and those should have different training and tasks. Most high schools only seem to have guidance counselors (discipline, schedules, IEPs, therapy); they are educated and hired and trained for that and devote almost all their time to that. Considering how complex the college application process is it’d be money well invested to have a person whose sole job it is to help with college advising. In other countries it’s done like that and in many us high schools as well. I can see a master’s in education/college advising tied to that job.
Obviously that’s being optimistic about education budgets, which isn’t realistic in many states.
The UCs and CSUs do not require much if anything from the guidance counselor. Coalition app uses the SRAR. In common app it’s now possible to separate counselor’s transcript and recommendation - some colleges want two recommendations, which can be from the GC or teachers. Many allow additional recommendations from coach, pastor, arts teacher…
None of us-including the OP- really know whether these counselors are doing their job, but I do hope that if they failed to meet the basic requirements, the school admin would have intervened by now. I think most posters are just trying to provide more realistic expectations- your high school wouldn’t be on the visitation list for many colleges if it is poor, as those visits are basically advertising campaigns for wealthy, usually white, schools with full pay applicants. Google the recent NYT article on it for further info. In any event, I’m not sure increasing advertising to the students would be a priority of mine for counselors.
Here is a practical suggestion that worked for us regarding emails.
My son’s GC rarely answered our emails despite a school policy that staff would answer within 24 hours.
When I emailed the GC (not often…but it did happen) I would simply copy the principal. Once I started doing that…I got an answer within the day.
@roycroftmom I have read the NYT article. Thanks for telling it like it is; high schools are still mostly divided along race and/or socioeconomic class. That pretty much explains why there are different standards.
My family put up with an inadequate GC for 6 years. I am tired of making excuses for her, forgiving her because she is overworked and underpaid. The level of service that the other GCs offer is light years beyond what this alphabetically assigned counselor has provided. If you are not in the top 10% or bottom 10% you were summarily dismissed and told essntially told to fend for yourself, that is not OK!. If you not able or are unwilling to provide even the minimum level of competent guidance, including meeting deadlines that you have been advised of well in advance, than change jobs, ask for help or quit. Do your dang job, because I am sure if I, or my husband, performed at our place of employment in this manner it would not be tolerated. It took a while for us to figure how to work around her incompetence, which usually involved cc’ing the head counselor, and low and behold things would magically get done! When a co-worker goes into Naviance and remarks under her breath “OMG, what is going on with your account” to your senior student you know it ain’t right. Fortunately this particular GC did not return to school after Springbreak this year and decided to retire, a little too late for us, but thank goodness no one else will suffer from her lack of professionalism.
Our GCs were assigned by ABC order as well. Our whole family did a happy dance when they switched the assignments after DS’s 11th grade year…because that meant we would not need to deal with the GC our son had for our daughter.
We are totally convinced that it was us…and one other family that forced the change. We both had younger kids…and we are quite sure the GC was done with us too. This was the GC who told my son not to bother applying to the college from which he got his bachelors.
She did her job…but she wasn’t a particularly positive influence on my first kid…and we were happy not to deal with her for the second one.
Can you can do the applications yourself?