<p>phanta – could you tell me which CS specialty made you look at Yale?</p>
<p>And yes, the great Alan Perlis – that was quite an era.</p>
<p>^ it’s a subfield of AI (any more specificity and it’d be too easy to tell my identity ;))</p>
<p>Yale84Alum,</p>
<p>I didn’t say that you couldn’t do well with a CS degree from Yale. In fact, I said in my first post on this thread: “I do think that one could go far with a CS degree from Yale” (but I think a Stanford CS degree is more likely to take you farther). I also said Yale is “great for CS” and “strong in CS” and defended the Yale CS department (it’s much better than most think, etc.).</p>
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<p>I actually said that CS PhD admissions stresses the quality/prestige of an undergrad’s CS department. This is especially true at the top CS schools. Of course some Yale undergrads in CS go on to top CS departments - but if you’re looking to maximize your chances of getting into a top CS PhD program, Stanford undergrad CS cannot be beat. It’s also incontrovertible that the renown of the prof writing your recommendation is extremely important (it’s not that reputation ‘can’ play a role; it does play a big one). Even with just an “okay” application, you can get into the accept pile if you have a glowing recommendation from a superstar prof.</p>
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<p>It also means you have fewer people to collaborate with and less variety in projects that are being done by students and faculty, and you have less breadth of represented interests. At Stanford collaboration is very important in CS, as most products and companies from Stanford are created by a team of students in CS. Most classes have some kind of collaboration. And as I suggested earlier, anyone who wants to work with a CS prof can and does; you can usually see the undergrads a prof has worked with on his/her website. Although something like 10% of the student body majors in CS (so it’s less personal than at Yale), only a subset of them have any desire at all to work with profs. I never heard of anyone who wanted to work with a prof but couldn’t.</p>
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<p>I don’t think it’s so much because of the professor that this recommendation/application would be taken seriously; it’s because it’s Yale. And of course you can downplay the renown of the CS faculty at Stanford and play up the renown of CS faculty at Yale. In this case, the former would be from not just a “well-known professor,” but one of the most highly cited CS researchers in the world. Here’s a listing of the research impact (by H-index) of CS universities/companies, from what’s probably the most comprehensive database of CS publications:</p>
<p>[Top</a> organizations in Computer Science](<a href=“http://academic.research.microsoft.com/RankList?entitytype=7&topDomainID=2&subDomainID=0&last=0&start=1&end=100]Top”>http://academic.research.microsoft.com/RankList?entitytype=7&topDomainID=2&subDomainID=0&last=0&start=1&end=100)</p>
<p>Yale is #45 with an H-index of 173. If you restrict it to the last 10 years, Yale drops to #84. For the last 5 years, Yale drops a little more to #91. For AI Yale is #67 and within the last 10 years #288.</p>
<p>When it comes to CS, it already isn’t a fair fight, given Stanford’s role in SV, etc. When it comes to AI, it’s even more unfair, given that Stanford has the oldest AI lab in the world (MIT’s lab traces its roots to a few months earlier than Stanford’s, although technically the lab was just Project MAC for the first 15 or so years). Almost every person who received the Turing Award for work in AI is affiliated with Stanford somehow, mostly as professors. Attempting to compare Stanford and Yale in this respect is difficult because they’re so different.</p>
<p>OK, phantasmagoric, you make a strong case. Stanford rocks. (But go Cal!)</p>
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<p>Are the three equal?</p>
<p>robotmom1414’s son sounds more like a Yalie to me despite the great insight (more about his alma mater - Stanford) provided by phantasmagoric</p>
<p>How about undergrad school at one, grad school at the other? Worst/best thing about Stanford is its in CA. Depends how you look at it. Where does the kid want to live/work after finishing school? East/West or in the middle? AND- it doesn’t matter which school is ranked higher- which school will the kid do better at, have access to top-notch profs? Being that Stanford is near Silicon Valley- even adjunct faculty are bound to be good. You don’t need a graduate thesis to decide…</p>
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Admission to Stanford’s graduate program in CS is much more difficult than undergraduate admission. It is probably the world’s most prestigious program in the world’s most dominant industry. Even a stellar graduate from another strong CS program cannot expect admission. I would suggest not premising future plans on anticipated admission. If the concern about the CS experience is primary, taking the opportunity now would be best.</p>
<p>However I would also agree that putting all the weight on the CS program would be a mistake. Direct experience of both environments would be the best basis for a decision.</p>
<p>The previous two posts go back to the heart of my question in my OP. My son would like to end up in SV, and not necessarily want to spend both his undergrad and graduate years at the same institution. (I know schools like MIT don’t really want their own undergrads in their graduate program). So the thought process has been Yale might be the best choice for undergrad (for all the reasons already stated in earlier posts) and Stanford for grad school. Of course, getting in when the time comes is hardly a given. But I guess we didn’t know it was even more difficult to get into their graduate program than their undergrad. Hmm…</p>
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<p>I would say Stanford, MIT, and CMU are about equal in AI.</p>
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<p>This is true, but it’s also the case that those from stronger CS programs are more often successful in grad admissions to top CS programs.</p>
<p>robotmom1414, MIT actually likes its undergrads in its grad programs (they make up a large portion of the MIT grad student population), though others like Stanford are the opposite. I also didn’t want to spend undergrad+grad at the same place. If he went to Stanford, he could still end up going there for grad if he so wanted (I know of a few who have), but he’d most likely get into a top program like MIT EECS. If I were in his place, I’d take Stanford for CS now, because the opportunity might not come again.</p>
<p>edit: if he goes to Stanford, he can do what many CS undergrads do and just coterm in CS - getting a MS while finishing their BS. In that way, a lot of Stanford undergrads get a grad degree from Stanford. It also gives you time to take more advanced grad-level classes, which helps immensely in PhD admissions.</p>
<h2>^ When we were at MIT last spring for an info session, the admission officer who spoke said that they strongly discourage MIT undergrads from applying to their graduate programs and take very few as they believe a student gets much more out of attending different schools. Some depts. like Chem-E have a stated policy of not accepting any of their own undergrads. </h2>
<p>From the MIT Chem-E website:
Does the Department admit its own S.B. students to the graduate program?</p>
<h2>We consider our own undergraduates for the M.S.CEP program, but for no other degrees. This policy is difficult for us, because we must turn away some excellent students. However, we feel very strongly that our students benefit by going to another school for an advanced degree. We make the M.S.CEP exception because the Practice School has no equivalent at other schools.</h2>
<p>I didn’t really want to get into much about MIT because that’s another whole thread, but he did apply there, too, and will hear next week on 3/14. Once his top choice, it now seems to be third behind Stanford and Yale where I think he feels he’d enjoy himself more and have a more balanced undergrad experience. He’s also waiting on CMU and Cornell. (CMU offers basically no fin.aid so we’ve essentially written them off already given his other options).</p>
<p>Does anyone have information on just how many Yale graduates last year, and last couple of years, went to PhD studies in CS at Stanford (or MIT or CMU)? I know Harvard sent some to Stanford, and I assume Princeton and Cornell send a stead stream.</p>
<p>robotmom,</p>
<p>His decision may be a slam dunk moreso than you think after he visits admitted student days.</p>
<p>Our DS had similar choice as well. For one of the visits, we received a picture of one school, for the other we didn’t. We only got feedback upon picking him up at the airport.</p>
<p>Guess where he is at?</p>
<p>You are doing a great thing of getting the perspective from others who have chosen and are choosing between both schools. You however have to be cognizant, that what you deem a pro may not be for your son. Don’t sweat it, it will work out PERFECT in the end. 
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<p>Congrats to your DS</p>
<p>^^^^a little mixed up here</p>
<p>so does that mean that Stanford or Yale will be a slam dunk after the admitted student days?</p>
<p>AFAIK the only way to figure out how many of each university’s undergrads end up at another university is by looking at their homepages in grad school (most have one) and finding their alma mater, if they mention it. (Most first-year grad students do - that whole ego thing. :p)</p>
<p>robotmom, it’s odd that an admissions officer at MIT would say that the institute doesn’t go for its own undergrads. For the most part at MIT (where I currently am) nobody would contest that MIT has a preference for its undergrads - they’re everywhere - especially since MIT, Harvard, etc. are known for “academic inbreeding.” Some departments probably do have a preference for non-MIT undergrads, though I don’t think most actively discriminate against MIT undergrads (as is the case at Stanford). Main point: your son should keep an open mind with MIT in relation to Stanford/Yale - it’s very unique, and could offer him a lot (perhaps the culture) that he wouldn’t be able to find elsewhere.</p>
<p>I get what you mean about the more balanced undergrad experience. For me MIT was a bit too techy, Yale was a bit too artsy/fuzzy, and Stanford was just right. :)</p>
<p>4thfloor, when I was a PhD student at Berkeley, I came across quite a few other Yale grads … same for after I left and was interviewing graduating PhDs. The graduating CS class at Yale is so small, though, that it’s not even clear statistics would be too meaningful. If you really care, I recommend that you look up the chair of the department and ask privately for information… maybe someone there can help you out.</p>
<p>^^ Yes, but CS at Yale has changed a lot, as phanta described in an earlier post.</p>
<p>Certainly up to the mid 70’s (not to imply anything about later), Yale was a great place for CS, and even though it was little, its undergrads included people like Leiserson and Immerman.</p>
<p>If someone is really interested in grad school prospects, it seems like a good idea to check out where the undergrads ended up! (I am curious, but not THAT curious, to do the hard work that phanta suggested in post #34.)</p>
<p>Thanks for this thread. My daughter also attended the YES weekend at Yale (received the LL) and just found out she’s on the wait list for MIT. She’s been accepted by U of Michigan and MSU with the former giving very little financial aid and the latter offering full tuition. Yale’s cost is actually close to MSU’s. Her interest is computer science/math, with some serious flute/music interest thrown in for good measure. She is still undecided which direction to go, and other than reading this thread, I’m not sure what to give her to help her decide. Any thoughts?</p>
<p>@MImom2012 - Well, my son just got accepted to MIT yesterday. But it turns out the cost will be double that of attending Yale. We had some reservations about MIT as noted above, and the fin aid doesn’t help. But there’s still a tug on his heartstrings for MIT. These decisions are incredibly difficult. Congratulations to your daughter! If you would like to send me a PM, I’d be happy to communicate with you more in-depth re:the factors we have been weighing as we think (and perhaps over-think!) this decision.</p>
<p>I sent a PM, robotmom1414, but I’m not sure it went through. Let me know. By the way, is your son involved in FIRST? Your user name hints perhaps so.</p>
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I could have told you that about U-M’s financial aid. Sure, they meet need but consider loans as a BIG part of meeting that need. I will say that a $2K lower EFC made a huge impact on the grants they offered for my daughter but it was cheaper for my son to attend Yale than U-M, not that he needed any reason to attend Yale. :)</p>