Accepted to two Safaties and WL at five Reaches - what to do?

Parents Forum
1

Would love some guidance so we can help our son with next steps.

My son is strong student who wants to study Math as an undergrad and continue to PhD in Math/Science. He dreams of being a Professor and work as a researcher. Here’s a summary of his grades:

GPA 3.9 (UW)
9 AP courses (4 last year, received 5 in all and this year he’s taking 5 AP courses)
SAT: 1500 (one sitting), 800 Math 2, 750 Chemistry
Great letter of recommendations (his counselor loves him, same with his Latin and Math teachers) plus a letter from a Professor at Wharton where he interned last summer and did research.
EC: Varsity swim team, Latin club, TSA club (both for 6 years), Guitar player in a rock band (6 years)

Accepted: Pitts Honors program and Penn State (both with a merit scholarship)
WL: Johns Hopkins, Tufts, Cornell, CMU, UMich
Denied: Schreyer Honors College, Brown, Dartmouth, Upenn, Chicago, CMU ED (Math)

You may ask yourself why he applied to safe and reach schools only? well, he said that going to target schools like Syracuse, Lehigh, etc. will require paying 4 times more than a safe school and he’s not convinced he will get 4 times the education. Although we can afford paying for a private school he insisted to follow his strategy and if you ask him to look back and redo the process he still think this was the reasonable approach.

So… now he has a few decisions to make and I’d love your insights and guidance:

  1. Pitts Honors vs. Penn State - which one is stronger academically in STEM? from what we read, Penn State is stronger slightly overall other than Pre-Med. Penn State is closer to home (which he likes) and the campus feel (vs. urban) is preferred. Would love to hear thoughts on these two schools.
  2. Waitlist strategy - he fell in love with CMU, visited twice, attended Turn Tartan (overnight experience plus a day in the classroom) and applied ED to College of Sceinces (specifically Math) but unfortunately got denied. He applied to CMU RD for Statistics and ML and got Priority Waitlist (what is it? seems like everyone who gets WL get priority). So what I'm trying to say is that he showed immense interest and commitment so far. We will go to CMU next week for WL students and write a LOCI, ask his counselor to call and perhaps re-write her recommendation letter. Anything else we can do to show CMU he's committed to go there? stats are really bad - usually 4-7 students get admitted from the WL.

-OR-

The other school he liked is JHU. He visited twice, and we will go again next week. Statistically at JHU, more students got offered admission from the WL (~120). Should his strategy be to show commitment to a school that he likes AND there’s better chances of being admitted?

He’s such a great kid! resilient, humble, mature, with a learner mindset. He will be a great fit in both schools because he’s willing to work hard (he likes academic challenges) and doesn’t need much to be happy other than a small group of nerdy friends who play Magic and DnD :slight_smile:

Thank you for any guidance and tips you can give us.

2

Between Pitt and Penn State, I would choose based on fit/feel. My decision came down to which campus I liked better.

3

Boy, I would not be revisiting WL schools unless they somehow recommend that. Have him write a LOCI, have the GC call the schools, but I would not revisit. It just seems like you are dragging it out and it’s going to be more painful.

He’s got two nice choices. Have him embrace those.

4

@suzy100 - we are going to Pitts anyway to help him make a final decision between Penn State and Pitts so thought we can cross the street and sit one hour in the WL students session. Since JHU is only 2 hours away, we can go there again to show interest. We will not go to the other three.

I hear what you’re saying - move on, and we are. He will make a decision by next weekend between the two that offered him a spot. At the same time, why not try to focus on one or two WL (and loved) universities?

5

It has been years but initially when my daughter was waitlisted at CMU, the priority waitlist required a non-refundable $500 (or perhaps less $) to stay waitlisted. We never committed to priority waitlist however she was admitted soon after to Humanities program. She had merit offers from other schools and made a choice to declne CMU

6

@bookmama22 they changed the policy I guess. You’re required to pay the $800 if they call the student. The student will have 72 hours to decide and pay or decline: https://admission.enrollment.cmu.edu/pages/the-waiting-list-frequently-asked-questions

7

“he said that going to target schools like Syracuse, Lehigh, etc. will require paying 4 times more than a safe school and he’s not convinced he will get 4 times the education.”

I think that this is sound and sensible thinking.

“He’s got two nice choices. Have him embrace those.”

I agree with this also. I think that he has two very good choices.

8

It’s a bloodbath for high stats kids. There are no matches, only reaches and safeties. Absolutely true.

My advice is, if there’s a school he really loved where he’s WLed, send the LOCI and then forget about it as much as possible. It sounds like CMU is that one. No WL visits. Then, unless he actually likes Penn State better, go with Pitt Honors College. The privileges are well worth having. Try to love it. If he doesn’t, transfer after a year.

Oh, unless he is a NMF. Then there are still options if he’s willing to go to college in the South.

Best of luck.

9

Don’t compare for “STEM” or pre-med if his interests are math and PhD. Look into math offerings and those in related areas (CS, statistics, economics, physics, etc.) to see what naturally be a better academic fit.

10

My younger son also looked at some target schools where he had an excellent shot at acceptance and felt they weren’t worth that much money. I appreciated his honesty and respect for what this was going to cost us.

My kids didn’t do anything about their waitlists. Love the folks who want you!

11

Regarding CMU’s Priority Waitlist, the expectation is that if you are admitted from the waitlist you will enroll:

Looking at the CMU threads, it appears that a lot of applicants were offered Priority Waitlist. Personally, I’d say “thanks but no thanks”. Pitt and PSU are both great options. If Penn State feels like the better fit than Pitt, then get ready to reply when hearing “We are…”
:))

12

Pitt students can take 1 class per semester at CMU. Might be useful at the higher level courses or for machine learning courses.

13

@shortnuke I don’t think that’s true. According to their website students admitted from the PWL have 72 hours to submit their enrollment fee or they are not admitted. It is not binding at all.

14

While PSU and Pitt might have been safeties for your son, they are more often matches or reaches for others. Congrats. I do think he should make his decision based on which school/city he likes the best. Can’t make a bad choice.

If he really prefers CMU or JHU, go for it on the waitlists. I think your plans to revisit and send any additional information (new awards, grades, LOR) are good.

Good luck.

15

Pitt Honors is top notch and has a long history of getting kids into serious research and post college scholarship programs. Not sure how that compares to Penn State.

And yes, I would make a quick run at CMU since you will be literally a few blocks down Forbes from the school.

Best of luck.

16

Others have said it, don’t visit the WL schools. First, the visit will not move the priority (whatever list they have). Second, the visit will prevent you and your son to move onto the two great choices. Third, the visit will invariably make your son feel worse -asking the unanswerable questions like - what did I do wrong, what could I have done better and/or how come peers with lesser stats get in and yet “I” get left behind holding the bag. Just send in the LOCI, get the GC call if you can (if financially feasible, that you would attend regardless of aid package).

It sounds like you have a great kiddo with the right mindset - why pay 4X more for the “prestige” from some rankings done by a small grp of folks. My D1 is attending JHU now for her MD, many of her classmates came from state flagship schools including UPitt and Penn State. If your son is heading to grad school anyways - do the best he can in the school he falls in love, and apply himself well at that school then move onto the next great step.

UG college admission is filled with factors not controlled by stats alone, grad school admissions will get a lot more academically focus- either you cut it or you don’t.

Enjoy the next four years in one of these two great schools. If things really don’t work out, then look for transfer options. Just don’t do the WL campus visits. No need to drag on and best wishes to your son.

17

"You may ask yourself why he applied to safe and reach schools only? well, he said that going to target schools like Syracuse, Lehigh, etc. will require paying 4 times more than a safe school and he’s not convinced he will get 4 times the education. "

This must be math kid logic because mine completed that exact same analysis and came to the exact same conclusion.

He sounds like a logical, practical and cool kid. It stinks to get WL from some of those programs, but the others are right -don’t waste more time and money on them, move on to picking from the ones that want you. I suspect a kid like that - smart, fun, interesting - will find he does well at whichever place he chooses. And being a star at either Penn State or Pitt would give him multiple great options, including top grad schools.

18

I vote for Pitt honors! It’s a great school…plus…it’s in a city like JHU and CMU.

Penn State is in the middle of nowhere.

19

CMU Fall 2017:
5609 students waitlisted
2834 accepted position on WL
4 (FOUR!) accepted off waitlist

I was all ready to say, go for it, pursue your dreams, etc., but actually with that history, I say, don’t even set foot on campus. Just scratch CMU off your list.

The most recent Common Data Set I could find for JHU was Fall 2014, when exactly ONE student was accepted from a waitlist numbering over 1,000.

Definitely, move on. Love the school that loves you. Be happy you have a choice.

20

If he loved CMU and you can afford it, I’d go for the priority waitlist. I’m very biased because CMU was so good for my kid. (He also had a recommendation from a Latin teacher! The other one was physics not math, but it could easily have been math.)

Between the other two, I think it really is a question of which he likes the best. If he can visit and talk to people in the math department he may find that one or the other connects better with him. They are both excellent schools that can get him wherever he wants to go.

As for the only safeties and reaches approach - both my kids ended up dong that. As long as you are willing to go to the safeties (and your safeties are places a bright kid can thrive) I see no issues.