Accident - need advice

Parent Cafe
1

<p>I’m back for advice once again regarding another little hiccup in my life.</p>

<p>On Wednesday, my fiance and I were going to work (we work for the same place, temporarily) when we had an accident. We were traveling alongside a Mack tractor trailer in the right turn lane, while the tractor trailer was in the left lane of two lanes going in the same direction. The tractor trailer was making a wide turn, and we were both signaling but due to glare from the sun we could not see that the turn signal on the front of the truck was flashing (we couldn’t see the back one because we were alongside it). Basically, both of our vehicles were turning at the same time and we wound up underneath the truck. </p>

<p>We weren’t hurt at all, but there was a lot of damage done to the vehicle. Given that we took on a Mack truck, the car is totalled, which is a bummer but not really what we’re concerned about. </p>

<p>We really don’t think the details reflected in the police report add up. I purchased it online and it said that the Mack truck was in the turning lane signaling, and then we attempted to pass them on the right, apparently when they pulled into the left lane to make the wide turn (?). However, we were never actually behind the Mack truck, only alongside it. Apparently a witness said that we were behind the Mack truck though, which we don’t recall, and so my fiance received a ticket for improper passing on the right. Thus, we were faulted for the accident.</p>

<p>A big issue that I don’t understand is, if we were attempting to pass the truck, how we ended up underneath it toward the very back of a long tractor trailer. Admittedly, the details of what happened are somewhat fuzzy because we were pretty shocked, but I our recollection of what happened does not match that of the police report at all. </p>

<p>Apparently, my mother (who also works at this place) said a coworker witnessed the accident from behind us where he was also driving into work. It’s very possible that we were wrong about what happened, but if his version of what happened matches with ours, should we go to court and fight the ticket? I know ultimately we are at fault in a way because he was signaling and we just didn’t see it, so we thought he was going straight and there was no obstacle to us turning. However, we certainly weren’t trying to pass him on the right, at least not intentionally. </p>

<p>Another issue that really upset my mother was something that happened after the police officer arrived. When the accident happened, the windshield completely broke and partially crashed inwards, and little fragments of glass were thrown all over the car (and us). I was sitting the passenger seat, and due to something under the truck my door would not open. I had to climb out of the driver’s side door. When the officer arrived, he asked for the proof of insurance which was still inside the car and not accessible from the passenger side because the door would not open. When I tried to explain this to him he basically shrugged and told me I needed to go get it, which required getting back into the car and climbing on the driver’s seat which was covered in broken glass to get to the glove compartment. </p>

<p>The tow truck was there in less than 20 minutes and extricated the car from underneath the tractor trailer, at which point I could have opened the door and gotten the proof of insurance without putting myself at risk. Do I have any grounds for complaint or is this a normal thing for a police officer to request in this kind of situation? </p>

<p>I really appreciate if you’ve read this all. I’m pretty shaken up by this incident so I’ve been spending the last few days at work replaying it over and over.</p>

2

<p>If you have a witness who can dispute the ticket, get them to write down their account now while it is still fresh in his mind. You will need to take this to court.</p>

<p>Get a lawyer. In traffic court, people without lawyers (almost) never win.</p>

3

<p>A few points - </p>

<ul>
<li><p>You’re unhurt. That’s the most important thing as all the rest of this will pass shortly.</p></li>
<li><p>Is this a double right turn intersection? If not then it seems that the truck would have been at fault for an unsafe turn since even though he has to take the turn wide he needs to be extra careful about it if he’s not sticking to a single lane.</p></li>
<li><p>If it’s a double right turn intersection and you were in the inside right turn lane then I don’t know how you ended up underneath the truck. It seems that you would have hugged the right curb and not gone where the truck was.</p></li>
<li><p>When you say things like ‘don’t recall’, details fuzzy, shaken up, etc. then som eof your perspective on it will be discounted by whoever’s listening including the police and insurance companies. Be careful how you phrase things when you talk to the insurance companies and the court.</p></li>
<li><p>If you haven’t already done so, go back to that intersection and try to make some sense of what must have happened. You might decide you were at fault after all or not. (By ‘you’ I mean your fiance).</p></li>
<li><p>Talk to the witness yourself (you and fiance) and see what the witness says firsthand.</p></li>
<li><p>If after considering it all you feel you were in the right (pun) then go ahead and fight the ticket.</p></li>
<li><p>The police shouldn’t have made you crawl inside a glass strewn dangerous car. One thing I do is keep a copy of the insurance card in my wallet as well - it’s handy and would have helped you in this situation.</p></li>
</ul>

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<p>Magnetron: We are planning to get his account on Monday at work. Hopefully he will still remember but I did not know until now that there were witnesses. Unfortunately, I don’t think we can afford a lawyer over this. It will cost a bit in points on his license and possibly insurance, but he has a clean driving record otherwise.</p>

<p>GladGradDad:</p>

<p>- You’re unhurt. That’s the most important thing as all the rest of this will pass shortly.</p>

<p>This is very true. We try to keep reminding ourselves of this but it’s still frustrating. </p>

<p>**- Is this a double right turn intersection? If not then it seems that the truck would have been at fault for an unsafe turn since even though he has to take the turn wide he needs to be extra careful about it if he’s not sticking to a single lane. **</p>

<p>I’m not even sure if you’re supposed to turn right from the other lane at all. He had to pull into it to make the wide turn. It basically seems that he made the turn either having not seen us or assuming we would yield. </p>

<p>- If it’s a double right turn intersection and you were in the inside right turn lane then I don’t know how you ended up underneath the truck. It seems that you would have hugged the right curb and not gone where the truck was.</p>

<p>Basically, what we think happened was that when he took the wide turn, he wound up where the tail end of his truck was in the left lane from where he made the turn, and his front end was in the left lane on the street we were both turning onto. With us making the turn from the right lane to the right, he must have overtaken us turning this so the middle of the truck was over the right lane where we were turning. Then when he straightened out the section of the truck with the back wheels hit the back of our car. </p>

<p>- When you say things like ‘don’t recall’, details fuzzy, shaken up, etc. then som eof your perspective on it will be discounted by whoever’s listening including the police and insurance companies. Be careful how you phrase things when you talk to the insurance companies and the court.</p>

<p>Yeah, we tried to be more careful about that when we were actually talking to the police officer. We were a lot more confident about it then, too. We were honestly shocked when he gave my fiance the ticket. He seemed pretty rude when he explained it to us too. He really didn’t bother getting our side of the story, at all. </p>

<p>- If you haven’t already done so, go back to that intersection and try to make some sense of what must have happened. You might decide you were at fault after all or not. (By ‘you’ I mean your fiance).</p>

<p>We pass by this intersection every day, and it seems the only detail that determines whether or not we were at fault was whether or not we had been behind the tractor trailer before he started to make the right turn. We are pretty sure he was already in the left lane when we approached, and we were at the corner when he must’ve started to turn. </p>

<p>**- Talk to the witness yourself (you and fiance) and see what the witness says firsthand.</p>

<ul>
<li>If after considering it all you feel you were in the right (pun) then go ahead and fight the ticket. **</li>
</ul>

<p>Will do. </p>

<p>**- The police shouldn’t have made you crawl inside a glass strewn dangerous car. One thing I do is keep a copy of the insurance card in my wallet as well - it’s handy and would have helped you in this situation. **</p>

<p>Thanks for the tip!</p>

5

<p>So now it sounds like one of the two might have happened - </p>

<ul>
<li><p>You were behind the truck in the right lane. The truck went to make the right but did it by moving to the left lame so he could make a right turn. At that time you either sped up to beat him to the turn (in which case you’d remember - by ‘you’ I mean your fiance), or you thought he moved over to the left to go straight so you went ahead with the right turn and got squashed when he turned right as well.</p></li>
<li><p>A variant of the above but where the truck moved to the left lane way early in anticipation of the right turn so you ended up beside him on the right and when you both turned right he squashed you.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>I think a case can be made for the truck, who was doing a wide turn using multiple lanes including maybe one not used for right turns, having the onus to do so extra carefully and in this case he didn’t adequately make sure the lanes were clear. When I’ve seen truckers do these wide turns they’re usually very careful about it, do it slowly, check their mirrors very closely, and slow/stop if there’s a car in their way including on the side of them.</p>

<p>From your description it sounds worth fighting the ticket and not agreeing to being at fault in the accident.</p>

6

<p>I agree that if you felt you were in the right, that you should get a lawyer’s help and fight this.
However, you said that- you know ultimately you were at fault. So you know you were not in the right.
You may disagree with some of the particulars on the report, but you don’t dispute his turn signal was on, and that you were at fault. Then what is there really, to argue?
I guess you could go before a judge to argue that you weren’t trying to pass on the right, but that you weren’t being careful enough while you were traveling beside him. That might be the truth based on your OP, but is there really any value in that since you admit you were at fault?
Of course, some might suggest to get a lawyer to minimize the consequences rather than to argue your innocence and those are 2 very different things.</p>

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<p>You are so fortunate not to have been hurt.
I am not really clear on what the trucks were doing re: your accident, but this is how I try and drive around trucks. ( on freeway)
I make sure I can always see their side mirrors if I am not directly behind them. If possible, I try and get away from riding alongside ASAP.
I always try and behave like they cannot see me, and as if they have been driving for 24 hrs and reaction time is slowed.</p>

<p>I think I would go to court just to clarify and because there is a chance it would be dropped to lesser infraction.
Plus the cop probably won’t show up.</p>

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<p>^^ I didn’t see where the OP indicated it was her fiance’s fault. </p>

<p>I don’t think it was from the description given here (but there are usually at least 2 sides to every story). At the minimum there were 2 drivers who might have exercised more care in this and it wasn’t necessarily 100% the fault of the OP’s fiance. Any time a truck turns wide and uses more that the specific single lane they need to be extra careful and (not talking about the OP’s fiance) I’ve seen drivers of cars go darting around them when the trucker does the wide turn. It’s always a move that the trucker needs to be extra careful doing.</p>

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<p>My impression is that they couldn’t actually see a turn signal due to where they were and the the light. If the turn signal does not have good visibility, it’s not the driver’s fault for not seeing it, especially since a normal car turning right shouldn’t have affected them anyway – since the truck didn’t have good visibility with its turn signals and couldn’t successfully complete the turn while staying in its lane, I think the onus is on the driver to be extra aware of other drivers.</p>

<p>It doesn’t sound to me like the police officer was being very reasonable at all. Who tells someone to go back into a totaled car filled with shards of glass? Cars blow up at accident scenes. He really didn’t need to see paperwork right then. It sounds kind of like he was treating you like you were drivers that he had pulled over, not drivers that had been in an accident.</p>

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<p>Perhaps the witness saw your car behind the truck when you and the truck were in the right lane and the contention is that you should have noted the truck moving left in order to turn right?</p>

<p>If that is the case and the OPs car was too close to the truck to see the right blinker go on- say the truck signaled left blinker to change lanes, as he changed lanes, they pulled up along side, then the truck turned on the right blinker- does the OP have any leg to stand on if they fight the ticket?</p>

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<p>What!?! It sounds like you didn’t see it because you were in the right hand lane and he was overlapping you in the left hand lane. If that is the case, the truck driver is TOTALLY at fault. One cannot legally make a right hand turn from a left hand lane, unless both lanes are turning lanes. If both lanes are turning lanes, and you were both turning right, it is highly unlikely that you could have ended up under the truck. Both parties have a responsibility to remain in their lane.</p>

<p>I was involved in a near accident a couple of years ago in which a guy in a pickup who was overlapping me in the left lane suddenly made a right exit directly in front of me. I only missed t-boning him because of my quick reaction and the responsiveness of my car. As it was, there was a lot of skidding and squealing brakes and tires. I ended up having s significant long-term pain problem from a pinched nerve due to wrenching my entire body in the effort to avoid hitting him.</p>

<p>From the sounds of it, I’d definitely fight it.</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, the police officer stated that large trucks are allowed to make such turns from a left lane because they cannot complete the turn otherwise. </p>

<p>Basically, we likely don’t really have a grounds to fight the ticket completely. Our recollection is that we observed the truck in the left lane, and we got into the right lane next to it in preparation to make the right turn. We didn’t see the truck’s blinkers. On the truck, the front blinker is a small disk, maybe 4-6 inches in diameter that blinks. It was a cloudless day and the sun was quite bright so for some reason we just couldn’t see it. It was visible from where we were, but it was not apparent that it was blinking. We couldn’t see the back signals on the truck because we were alongside it.</p>

<p>We’re likely going to take the same approach my fiance has taken in the past, as when he had an issue with the tinting on his car windows (they came that way). He may just plead guilty and explain his version of what happened to the judge, and hope that he is understanding and reduces the offense.</p>

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<p>

We just had a local incident where a dump truck attempted a right turn just as a bicyclist was attempting to cross the intersection on his right. That didn’t end well. :(. </p>

<p>Emerald is right, better to avoid being near such large vehicles as much as possible, whether you are in a car, on a bike, motorcycle, or on foot. </p>

<p>OP, I would file a complaint at the police station about the cop who made you crawl across the glass. I also would have waited until they extricated the car to get the papers, but hey, I’m kind of a b* sometimes ;).</p>

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<p>I wouldn’t worry so much about whether the blinker was on or not. A blinker is just a warning - not a ‘reservation’ of multiple lanes of space. The trucker can’t just turn on the turn signal and then not pay adequate attention to what’s around him.</p>

<p>The bottom line is that you didn’t see the blinker, the truck was ‘not’ in the right turn lane, but you were, and the truck made an unsafe turn since he didn’t exercise enough care to make sure there weren’t any obstacles/cars in his path as he made the wide turn from the wrong lane whether it’s permitted or not. From your description I don’t see how this is your fault unless you were purposely trying to scoot past him and beat him through the turn.</p>

<p>If it was me, I wouldn’t plead guilty with an explanation, I’d plead not guilty. Don’t forget that if you’re found guilt, whether you have an explanation or not, you’ll not only have to pay the ticket but you’ll have a chargeable accident on your record with a likely premium increase that could cost much more than the ticket.</p>

<p>(By ‘you’ I mean your fiance, of course)</p>

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<p>I think the truck is at fault not you. I’d absolutely plead not guilty. I’ve never heard of a law that gives trucks the right to pass with impunity from the left lane because they are too big to be able to do it from the right one.</p>

<p>As for the blinker issue - I never trust them. I’ve seen too many people with left hand blinkers suddenly try to turn right and thousands of cars who never use blinkers at all or never turn them off. </p>

<p>That said, on city streets you really don’t want to be to the right of a truck if you can help it. They have blind spots and they aren’t always as careful as they should be.</p>

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<p>I’s sure poster and fiancee have now learned valuable lesson about being on right of a semi, blind spots, and will be safer drivers in the future knowing better now how to watch out for the other guy. I didn’t want to get into all that since that wasn’t what the poster asked about.
To those that think the truck was at fault, and mention his turning from the left lane, I want to remind them of 2 things:

  1. The police report says he was turning from the turn lane
  2. Then and now the 2 in the car were “fuzzy” on details.</p>

<p>If they go into a court room now to dispute the report based on the idea that they are now clear on details, any judge would be highly skeptical of their testimony. Those facts and my opinion on court are what guided my advice.</p>

<p>I agree with Mathmom that some signal L but turn R. But that isn’t the case here. This is a case where it is undisputed that he was signaling R and turned R. So “not trusting” his blinker does not come into play here. In fact, bringing it up would hurt the Op’s hope not to be at fault. This isn’t a case where a guy turned opposite his blinker. Actually, he turned just the way his blinker indicated. Op does not want to say- We saw the R blinker but didn’t trust it, so we ignored it. The Op says the accident happened(largely) because they didn’t see the blinker.</p>

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<p>^But even if I’d seen the blinker, I’d have assumed that the truck was going to stay in his lane. Of course with experience I know better, but I still think the onus is supposed to be on the truck not to squash people on their right. It’s possible though, that the OP’s boyfriend also took a wider than necessary turn.</p>

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<p>Police frequently charge people with things of which they are not guilty. I think that the attitude of the jerk who required you to crawl over glass into a smushed car speaks volumes. Don’t be so quick to roll over and play dead.</p>

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<p>I would research the statute (and discuss with a lawyer) to determine if it is even possible to be guilty of “passing on the right” if you are in the right turn lane.</p>

<p>I don’t know what laws apply to trucks making wide right turns, and I am loathe to rely on logic or common sense in a situation like this, but it seems to me a truck driver swinging wide to the left to make a right turn should be watching his right side very closely to make sure he doesn’t run over someone in your position.</p>

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<p>The truck driver’s livelihood depends on driving carefully. My bet is that he did everything correctly.</p>

<p>His signal was on and the OP was behind the truck as noted by witnesses. OP either missed the turn signal or ignored it and pulled into the blind spot. So the trucker never knew the OP was there until he hit them. The truck driver has to focus on the cars ahead of him as he makes the turn. But my question is, when did the OP’s fiancee notice the truck was turning and why didn’t he either stop, backup or pull over to the right as far as possible? The turning truck was most likely moving much slower than the car. Why didn’t they maneuver out of the way?</p>