@cptofthehouse This is why I say what needs to be done needs to fit the situation. My MIL had Alzheimers so the path in her situation is different from those who don’t. It doesn’t mean everyone needs to be treated as if they have it though in the same manner it doesn’t mean no one needs to do those things when someone does have it.
IMO, everyone should have certain things in place so that if an emergency hits, someone can more easily step in and steer the ship. That goes for young people, for us , and particularly the elderly because the odds start to really go up that they are going to need help.
A family friend found out the hard way, that spouse gets 2/3 of assets not in joint name if a will does specifically leave it all to the spouse. A family farm or business can be a big problem in such scenarios as it was for her since her mother had married someone with children of his own. All of that could have been avoided with planning
It’s really important to add support for YOURSELF. Hence this thread. It is so valuable to have people you can talk to dealing with similar issues in real time.
My Mom is in great health for her age (late 80’s) but slowly, very slowly, losing mental capacity. She is perfectly willing to have me help her, so I already have POA/HCP/names on bank accounts, copies of will, all that paperwork stuff.
But dealing with Mom herself is painful. I feel sad a lot of the time that she is not the same very sharp professional with 5 degrees including a PhD. I need endless patience because we often have the same conversation multiple times. She likes to go over minute details, I am sure as a way to remember them. She is in the weeds on some topics, like her finances, and worries all the time that she will run out of money. She won’t, I am certain. On other topics, things about our relatives or politics-- believe it or not-- she is rather sharp. But how much can you stand to talk about Trump? She is an avid news watcher and likes to discuss what each TV commentator said. Repeatedly. And of course the stereotype about watching TV at full blast volume if we ever do watch together.
She has a large house with a lot of stuff that she is very attached to. I agree with the poster above who says just leave the stuff and deal with it later. But mentally I walk around her house sometimes worrying about how on earth I will ever dispense with it all.
So my point is: enjoy your time with your parent. Carve out time to listen patiently when they want to talk about elections or foreign policy or Aunt Sally over and over and over. And find friends who can laugh with you about it because if you don’t laugh then you cry.
Echoing @doschico’s suggestion of a list of passwords. I would go so far as to ask them to log in with you if they’re comfortable with that. If they’ve lost their password or have a problematic account they may not realize it. If they’re not very savvy when it comes to technology and you’re in frequent communication you may even want to have them switch their password recovery email address to yours or have an agreed-upon challenge question for their accounts. I had a parent get locked out of their email account and they didn’t seem to know what to do.
@TimeFlies2 I had to chuckle with the mention of the tv at full blast! My mom lives in an apartment building where 99% of the tenants are younger than her. There are several couples there that are contemporaries of my aunt and SIL, and would visit with my parents. When dad was in the hospital a couple of weeks ago, one of the men called my aunt to ask if dad was in the hospital. No, he was not psychic, he noticed mom’s car had not moved in days, and when he went to their door, he didn’t hear the tv 
The first thing I do when I walk in the door is turn the tv way down! Mom never could understand why dad never would answer her when she spoke; it wasn’t that he didn’t answer, it was she couldn’t hear his reply. While mom is sharp, her hearing is going, but she is too stubborn to look into hearing aids.
My opinion…
If you have designated someone, especially your kids, to be POA, Living Will directive, executor, etc…please please let them know you have done so. Actually…I think you should ask IF they want to do these jobs, and if not find someone who does.
I can’t think it’s fun to lose a parent AND at the same time find out you are the one left to make all the estate decisions…surprise.
I’m fortunate that when my dad died for years ago, my mom was (and still is now at 90) of sound mind and body to handle everything on her own. She has always been an equal partner in all family finances so knew everything. When my dad started noticeably failing after a series of strokes she had him removed from the trust and all the accounts as the beneficiary (in case something happened to her first) and my sister and I became the beneficiaries. We already had both MPOA and DPOA for both of them and they had set up their revocable trust years before so all that needed to do that at the time was a phone call from her to their attorney to remove my dad. For the MPOA and DPOA, I was designated one and my sister the other, with a clause if one wasn’t available at the moment, the other could act.
Shortly after my dad died my mom had a bad fall (not due to her age) and I stayed with her for two months. During that time we worked on getting me on as an authorized user on all her accounts (credit cards, utilities, cable, etc., ) in addition to all her bank accounts and investment accounts being joint with me, including her safety deposit box. All of the financial accounts required additional paperwork (notarized) from every institution so, in case she becomes incapacitated, I can do everything, including authorizing trades in her investment accounts. Just having a DPOA is not enough for any of those things.
My in-laws, OTOH, did nothing and finally a few years ago, when it was obvious to everyone they were beginning to fail, we finally got my FIL to see an elder attorney to write a new will and get DPOA and MPOA’s after years of asking them to do so. I kept saying they needed a trust but was poo pooed. They are now both in skilled nursing home but refuse to let us sell their home. Money will eventually become an issue since it’s $26k a month to have them there. One of my BIL’s keeps bringing up the idea of moving them home - I think because he thinks it will save money. H is furious at the idea and his brother and he are barely talking.
My MIL and FIL are still designated the beneficiaries on everything even though she had full blown dementia now and he is failing rapidly.
I have removed myself from anything to do with the situation, deciding it was not my mess to deal with.
A little more about dealing with their STUFF: My sister and I helped them declutter in November. There was truly so much stuff everywhere it wasn’t very pleasant and there was a danger of tripping. At that point, we got recommendations for an estate sale company and they came to the house. They told us we didn’t need to do anything else at this point. When Mom and Dad decide to move, another hired person will help them, based on the apartment floor plan, figure out what they can take with them. When we have removed those things and anything else my sister or I want, we call the estate sale people and THEY organize everything. We don’t even have to take stuff out of cupboards and closets. They will display everything and hold a sale. After that, they will dispose of whatever is left. Their take is 40% of the sale proceeds. It will be a huge relief not to have to do it all ourselves.
Copied from @dietz199 's post in another thread (with permission, of course):
• While they are still functional insist on a review, and if needed – restatement – of any trust or wills.
• Try to find all the investment and bank accounts. Consolidate if sensible and possible
• Get at least one family member to be an authorized signature authority on each account
• Get to know their banker. Make that person your friend
• Set up online access to those accounts (yes, impersonate them).
• Get online access to their social security, medicare accounts
• Get online access to their medical records.
• Make sure you have medical power of attorney
•A DPOA is not a DPOA. Different institutions will still require their own paperwork
• Make a master file. Record the account #, URL, password, contact, expiration date (credit cards),
• Get on their safe deposit box signature card. Make sure you know where their – and the spare – keys reside. Keep the spare keys if possible
•. Keep their original trust documents, wills etc in YOUR safe deposit box. The last thing you want is to be locked out of the important info when you need it.
• Better yet, empty their safe deposit box and put the stuff it into one that is in your/sibblings names.
• Depending on their holdings – keep up with estate laws, both local, State and Federal.
• When (if) their cognitive abilities decline, have all their bills mailed to your address.
•. When dealing with State and Federal tax agencies – lie. Sorry, pretend you are them on the phone – otherwise you will wind up on the planet crazy. If your parent can not sensibly speak to a tax representative don’t get into a position where an agent states ‘you must put them on the phone to give permission’. It’s not a pretty thing.
• Get to know their medical providers. If at all possible, accompany them to some appointments so the providers get to know you and understand you have your parents’ best interest in mind.
• Find out if they are hiding valuables. You don’t want to be the one who sells the 1952 Magnavox stereo console only to read about the guy who found gold bars, cash and diamonds hidden in fake floor of the record storage area.
• Their trust, and mom’s subsequent survivor trust has a clause which says if the trustee becomes unable to act in their own interest the successor trustees become the acting trustees. Thank goodness. A letter from the appropriate medical professional stating mom’s incapacitation allowed my sister and I to be appointed as trustees.
I’ll share one thing to consider since we’re dealing with it after the death in February of MIL. Her affairs were in order, with a clear will and her investments left to H and his 2 brothers. But. In her attempt to “keep everything fair” , she named all three sons as co-executors of her estate. Fair, but now every estate document requires original signatures from all three, who are spread all over the country. We’re pdf’ing forms all over the place and they need to be signed and mailed back to us. It was happenstance that they were all together in our state (where MIL died) and were able to get the bank account for the estate established, I understand it would have been impossible to do without all executors physically present.
Can’t wait to see how this works when we go to redeem the US savings bonds. Ugh.
DH just went thru a major issue with his mom’s estate. She is also well down the dementia path. She and FIL had wills. When FIL died, DH had mom do a trust. For a long list of reasons it made sense to turn her original revocable trust into a non-revocable. Let’s just say it was a long, long road. The lawyer strongly suggested having ONE executor for precisely the reasons listed by @JustaMom5465. Of course, you need trust amongst siblings.
MIL also owned US savings bonds. They were kept in a safe deposit box registered to her sister and sister’s husband. When MIL’s BIL died one of those kids discovered the bonds. It took many trips to the bank with varied combinations of MIL’s kids, MIL’s sister’s kids and legal docs to straighten out the mess.
@JustaMom5465 re savings bonds: Went through this three years ago. Have a lot of patience, and perseverance.
The forms are online, fairly straightforward, but, there are specific notarizations required. I don’t recall off the top of my head, but I know that one beneficiary had quite the time with it. She’s out of state, and her local bank wanted a signed document from the estate’s lawyer (in person, if you can imagine) that she was to receive these assets. They suggested that she could head to another financial institution, and maybe they would take care of it for her (almost as if this other institution was a back street forger). Thankfully, she was able to make an appointment, walk in with her identification, and get what we needed to move forward. Even the folks at the treasury direct helpline said that her local bank was overstepping.
Treasury direct will create online accounts for each beneficiary, we went from paper bonds. Or I think you can have them send cash. Research how they handle individual bonds - I seem to recall that they will split some types, but not others.
While these led to some stressful days, they were resolved relatively quickly. If you need to call, have pen & paper ready, and get comfortable - I always had a bit of a wait. Also, don’t hesitate to call back if you get a representative that doesn’t “click” with you. I always got someone else when I called back.
I’m curious about the bonds … If you know the person is nearing end of life why not just have them cash out the bonds and avoid dealing with them?
Wih my grandmother we did not find the bonds until after she died and we were clearing out her apartment. She hid them under drawers, in books, under the bed. It was accidental we found the first and then had to do a concentrated search.
@Creekland Everyone thinks their end illness and passing will be simple. How you can avoid a lawyer
depends very much on the state. Not just regulations, but how complicated probate is. If I had an easy time with my mom’s details in Arizona, it would never have been that simple in my home state. Never. Otoh, probate here is a rubber stamp, if submitted properly.
@MaineLonghorn I don’t know much about this, but make sure your business cannot affect your parents’ assets if your biz gets sued. Just ask the right folks.
I had no issues trading in my mother’s savings bonds. Online, right certs, $ fast.
Sometimes, local banks (even national banks) have a problem with the liability they can face when they "certify " something. They’re taking on a responsibility, assuring other entities you’re legit. Different in different areas and it helps to know before things hit the fan.
Eg, BoA won’t do a Medallion. Many other fin institutions (banks, stock brokers, eg,) will want you to have an established relationship with them. I think one broker said 2 years, active.
I was lucky my 2nd bank still does this. Not all assets require a Medallion. But I was renaming investments, her retirement funds, etc.
So in the talk about preparing, it can be more than the obvious documents.
When my sister and I were co-executors, we were able to get estate accounts set up without both of us being physically present (which is good, given that she lives in California and I live in Maryland), but it involved a lot of documents being mailed back and forth and took considerable time. We did have to choose the one bank that had branches in both of our locations, though.
@“Youdon’tsay” if you can gain control of them, or get agreement from parent, works great. However, neither of my parents were willing. My dad’s were in the online system, so nothing physical to find. Some were paper transferred to my mom, but the registrations were not updated online.
@Singersmom07 - I don’t know when you had to deal with this, but we found that TD could do a search by registration (name) and provided us with a list of bond numbers.
BoA, while they told us they didn’t do medallion stamps, would have redeemed the savings bonds into the estate account (they are authorized to redeem), had the account been set up there.
But, a couple months earlier, when H and his brothers had showed up for the appointment there to set up the account (we have a preferred relationship with BoA), the court documents were produced in such a way that they wouldn’t/couldn’t do it. (Don’t ask me, it’s dumb) This was on a Saturday morning, the morning of mil’s memorial service. The “boys” quickly headed to the nearest Wells Fargo branch, about a half hour away, and they were able to set it up with those same documents.
Wells Fargo will do the medallion stamp (at least they said they would) but we’ll need to mail the bonds in for redemption.
With Fil’s death certificate from 2009 and the court documents.
It took me awhile and alot of frustration to learn to be my mother on the phone. She has dementia and can’t hear well, so even expecting her to give permission to speak to me was problematic.
When we were drawing up our advanced directives, it was recommended that we only name one person to make decisions. We were told that if more than one person was named, doctors would have to get permission from both parties & if they disagreed nothing could be done. We named S2 - he knows that he can consult with his brother, but that he is the contact person with the doctors. For the same logic, S1 will be our sole executor (once we update our wills)
In meeting with an Elder Care lawyer recently, I was informed that if either or both parents had to go to a NH and they ran out of money and apply for Medicaid, they would do a 5 yr look back and any amount gifted for any purpose (birthdays, Christmas, etc.) would need to be paid back before they would start paying. Each state has its own divisor number that they use in deciding how much would need to be paid before they started paying. And, while the non-NH spouse can keep the house, Medicaid could come back after that parent dies and obtain the assets from the house sale for the continued or prior care of the NH parent.
I unwittingly would pay for my parent’s groceries, new clothes, Rxs, etc., using my credit card and then transfer what I paid each month from their account (that I am on) into my account for when my cc bill was coming due. I don’t like to carry a lot of credit cards and I enjoyed getting more points on my cc and didn’t think this was a big deal. Now, I am going through old paperwork and receipts to try and find 5 yrs’ worth of expenses I legitimately paid for but that Medicaid may deem as a “gift.” There is no way I can realistically find every receipt for that long or figure out exactly how much cash was given over the years to siblings and the spouses and grandkids for b-days, Christmas, etc. and we can’t afford to pay for their NH care bc, the way they are going, they could last for years this way. So, I feel stuck. Now, I’ve been using their cc for everything for them as I am an authorized user.
Since my parents don’t have a ton of money and they’re getting good in-home care now with me still doing what all I do for them, the goal is to keep them home for as long as possible. We have home care set up twice a week for my dad that is paid for by the VA and my mom is on hospice palliative care that is paid for by Medicare. Just trying to “buy” as much time as possible to avoid that dreaded look back should they have to go to the NH and run out of money. Ugh, the things you learn about after the fact.