@Creekland, from the things you mentioned in your post, I could not agree with you more! It’s their money for their care and if nothing is left at the end, who cares. The way they both have had “nine lives,” I don’t expect money to be left anyway and their funerals have been prepaid for decades, so that’s good.
My older B lives about 30 minutes away and can be helpful when asked. For the past couple years he would pressure me to do the allowable gifting and I’m so glad I did not after visiting with the Elder Care lawyer. Now that mom’s home care is getting more involved (and thankfully Medicare is paying for hospice palliative), I’m glad my parents long ago put me in charge (DPOA, MPOA, executrix, etc.). B has had other issues which would make him a risky candidate for these duties and once money is given away and spent - well, you can’t get blood out of a turnip.
My older S lives in another state and is helpful when she visits, but that’s only twice a year. So all of their medical care issues, pill trays, financials/bills, laundry, grocery shopping and home cleaning/maintenance/repair issues fall on me and it can become overwhelming at times. The in-home help I do get for mom and twice a week for dad has been helpful and the caregivers have been great, though. My parents want to be in their own home and I will do all I can to keep them home and together bc dad would be fine on his own if mom had to go to a NH, but he would miss her. When she was in rehab for two months, he did great, but he also knew she would be coming back.
It’s nice not to have to worry about the stress that an elderly parent puts upon self and others, but that’s not always the way it works. People don’t call you when your 50 or 60 year old parent is doing incompetent things. But when a person hits a certain age, it does attract attention, and the calls start. We got phone calls from concerned people. And there was more than a tinge of disapproval of our having let things go.
There is also the time and stress it can put on you and your spouse. These days, some of us are not in optimal shape. I know many peers with high blood pressure, have had severe medical conditions and are over stressed as it is. Sometimes you have to go the least stressful route. Money can be a problem, and if an elderly parent is dangerously spending everything away, its a distinct possibility that you are going to have to be paying for that person. My MIL lost a tremendous amount of money on things that we let go including medical procedures that should have been paid by supplemental insurance that she did not continue when she should have. We really should have insisted on paying her bills long before we took that task away from her. It would have prevented broken pipes and other things that happened to her house, And she wouldn’t have been living in condemned conditions. She did object when she lost control of those things but did not take it to the point of legally contesting it. That would have been where we would have drawn the line. She did choose the poorer quality of life she suffered, and suffer she did, for some years before we stepped in, and I do believe in her case, we stepped in too late.
When there are siblings or other involved and impacted relatives, with money involved, it can get ugly. I have a friend who is going through this now. There is o easy answer to all of this.
@lookingforward, you bring up many good points. It can get very complex as rational thinking of a parent slips away and role reversal starts happening.
@rjm2018 there’s “noble” but there’s “realistic,” as well.
Part of my concern is seeing families at the hospice in-patient unit. Many delayed this setting, they express their regrets to me. They say they thought they could do it all, everything, and now are so surprised at the professional care they delayed. That’s often missing when one person, not a med pro, not even a CNA, takes this on. Wr cant always supply the full, informed care they need.
ML just returned from a truly heroic visit which likely saved her father’s life. She’s a miracle at quick analysis and problem solving. That’s different than assuming we can drop everything 24/7/365.
When it’s easy, smooth, great. But I don’t find it selfish or self centered when we simply can’t.
The path definitely needs to be different based upon whether the senior is merely aging, but fully competent (allowing for their age) and when mental issues are also involved. Both FIL and MIL would have had a much better quality of life had he sought help years earlier for MIL (as we tried to prod him into doing), but he (of totally sound mind) wanted to keep doing things for himself and he could make that decision. It only changed when she almost died and the state made him change. He did not do her (or himself) any favors, but he had to keep convincing himself that care was better for her even afterward. He felt he was letting her down otherwise.
My Dad was similar to @cptofthehouse 's MIL, but again, we couldn’t do a thing about it because he was sound enough even though anyone could tell things were “off.” We tried (asking officials) and were told it’s his life, his decision. We didn’t want to move him anywhere - just get help for him. He declined because he didn’t trust anyone. He “solved” it by having a surprise fatal heart attack at age 76. The house he lived in (and I inherited) really needs to be torn down. It’s in horrible shape and filled with Hoarder goodies. My sibling is living there now pretending to settle his estate without really doing anything - unless selling one comforter on ebay counts as doing something in the past 10 months. She shares his mental genetics and is in her 50s. What can I do? Nothing. I’ve even checked with a lawyer about this and he said he could take my money, but quite frankly he’s never seen the state side with “us” in such a situation. Lifestyle options are just that and there’s no real time limit to settling an estate. (Technically there are, but one can easily keep getting extensions for pretty much any excuse.) So, she’s losing the estate piece by piece by not getting it settled as expenses continue (Dad didn’t have much). It’s a good thing I was going to give it to her anyway. I’ve given up trying to do anything.
My nephew (her son) will lose out when she loses his share, but I’ve told him I’ll make up for it with his grandmother’s estate (shifting some from sibling to nephew). Mom has told me to do this and given me leeway officially too by what I inherit. I know sibling is going to be absolutely livid, but the lawyer has said there’s nothing she can do about it. He knows my mom is/was competent when she made her decision.
For my mom who is sound mentally - just her body failing - it’s 100% up to her if she wants me here, someone else here, or to go somewhere. So far she’s content with me and I have the time to do it. We do have nurses and home health aides coming in on a regular schedule. I definitely need those as I only have basic farm vet training!
Too all of you struggling with parents’ mental health and dementia: I am so sorry for all of you who have to face it. Personally, I think we as a society are failing you. There are so many people out there just like you who desperately need help, sympathy and support. People have no idea how bad it can be to take care of an ill parent who doesn’t want or can’t afford the help, until they have to do it themselves.
Number one rule of caring of the elderly is to take care of yourself first. Sometimes that means separating yourself from the situation, knowing that bad things are inevitably going to happen. No one should have to be in that position.
Our culture is not keeping pace with the ethical dilemmas adult children can find themselves in. It is one of the hardest things about my job, watching families navigate the impossible situation of a parent who is too sick to make healthy decisions but too well for intervention. The horror stories I could tell, and the problem is just getting more pervasive. Shame on us for not figuring out a better way to support our neighbors- the elderly parents and their children. We can do better. I know we can.
@CateCAParent - your statement about a person who is organized and considerate while living really resonated with me.
FIL died unexpectedly last August. While he was organized, he certainly was not considerate. So many issues (including probate) could have been avoided had he structured some things differently. Would have been easy to do, but thoughtfulness was not his forte’.
I can’t recall who mentioned the credit card upthread. What company allows “joint” ownership? I’d be curious to know. This was an issue MIL faced as all cards were in FIL’s name. She had no card of her own and really had no idea about their financial situation at all. When she went to fill out an online application for a card, dh was walking her through the process over the phone. She had to ask him how much income she had - she had no idea, even though her teacher’s pension and SS are a decent amount. Indeed - her SS was greater than FIL’s. I think she was somewhat shocked (and also somewhat angry) about what their financial resources actually were when it all came to light. FIL was always miserly and always complained about what things cost/fussed at her about spending, etc. I think for some couples of that generation (80s) it’s not uncommon that the men control the money. While dh handles most of responsibilities for finances in our household, I am aware of all of it, know all passwords, what gets paid from what accounts, etc. Both H and W need to be aware of how the household finances work whether or not that is a “blue” or “pink” job in their home.
We updated wills four years ago when ds turned 18. We have not yet brought him into the loop on our specific finances, but we have recently been discussing when the right time to do that is. There is an “in case of our deaths,” envelope, however.
This might not apply has heavily to our parents generation but still…keep track of computer and phone unlock passwords. I keep H and mine updated in the master file. I also ask the kids to disclose theirs if they’re comfortable with that request. S keeps us updated, D who is now married has to work it out with her own hubby.
I don’t remember if I posted this here or in the other similar thread: I am thinking of setting up a googledoc with passwords, etc. and sharing it with my 23-year-old daughter. It’s just the two of us.
re post # 66. No, society is not the problem. Human nature is. Some are graced with nice parents, others of us have the horrible ones. The wrong parent died decades ago. Our father, now in his 90’s, should have gone into senior living years ago. He would be literally physically abusive- the kicking and screaming (foul mouthed)- if moved. His body needs to follow his mind- memory seconds long, forgotten all grandchildren, etc. No laws would help. Any in home help would not last a day- they couldn’t do anything right. Get the picture? It is not laws, it is humans. Nor is it culture. He was always a bad, self centered person, age did not mellow him. Living with one of us (local brother totally out of picture) is NOT an option- we value our sanity and deserve our lives.
Legal matters are handled by my same state, different city sister. Her call. Both she and I are well organized for OUR old age because of this.