Ah, the problems with the precision of our English language. I think IDmom06 is saying that she worked at a college that is classified as “more selective” (as opposed to “most selective.”) I don’t believe she is trying to say that she worked at a school that was more selective than Rice. (But I could be wrong with this interpretation! IDmom06, feel free to hop in and correct me if I’m wrong!) But do you see how things people write can be misinterpreted due to the imprecision of written language? :)</p>
<p>anxiousmom - yes, exactly on the ‘more’ vs ‘most’ selective. I was trying to draw a comparison of both colleges and did a rather poor job of it. I worked in Admissions at a college that was exactly the size of Rice, now considered a ‘more selective’ rather than a ‘most selective’ like Rice. It was also a highly specialized college known for very strong undergrad and graduate programs. I performed initial evaluation of all applicants, accepted or declined the clear cut case and shipped the borderline cases to the Dean of Admissions. I also kept track of demographics which is why I know what you posted about diversity and categories is dead on. Though we made a conscious effort to achieve diversity, our admissions method was more from Japanese/French school of evaluation rather than truly holistic and therefore decisions were pretty ‘cut and dried’. But we did accommodate those applicants denied who requested a second evaluation. We also offered conditional acceptances as all of our applicants were extremely strong in math and some were somewhat weak in language arts…almost all conditional acceptances required summer school work in English or related areas.</p>
<p>Apollo - thank you. I know Serge and others were trying to be matter-of-fact, perhaps in an attempt to be helpful. I persist in posting on this thread because I want some posters to realize that though this is an open forums for opinions, they should also take care with their words. Getting a rejection letter is harsh enough without hearing discouraging words from peers as well. Especially when none us truly knows what goes on in the Rice Admissions office. And it is not our responsibility to give anyone a ‘reality check’, but it is our human responsibility to treat each other kindly. </p>
<p>My position has always been that a denied candidate with questions should contact Rice to discuss their decision. They should be prepared to accept a disappointing answer, but take heart in knowing that they have done everything they could. And if Rice is still their dream, they may be able to use the information learned in their discussion to strengthen their case as a transfer candidate. Also some of the comments regarding deferred candidates were absolutely incorrect. It is inappropriate for any person to advise a deferred candidate to ‘move on’ or ‘take a hint’. Deferred candidates will be considered equally in the RD round. </p>
<p>nspeds - Oh to grow old. Today I am even more sure of what I remembered about the denial reversal, but I also cannot for the life of me remember if this was something I learned here on the open board or perhaps via p.m. I suppose it is immaterial since this is such a rare occurence.</p>
<p>aw im sorry… i was deferred =/ but i guess it just wasn’t meant to be!! i dont think calling them will make your chances any better… </p>
<p>anyways. to make you feel better, i have heard from numerous sources (not only from people who got rejected or deferred, mind you) that rice defers/waitlists around the top 10% of the applicants because they figure they’ll be going to other schools anyway. </p>
<p>[shrug] ricers, don’t freak out on me now. it’s just what i heard… and frankly, i think it’s very plausible. i know GREAT, very well-rounded candidates who got waitlisted and deferred. oh well. maybe we just aren’t what rice wants? </p>
<p>=] cheer up. you’ll get in somewhere else that fits you ;]</p>
<p>uhmm…u can only speculate based on that…but u have to understand that there is just not enough spots. i believe ur supposition that they deferr the very qualified ones because they thin they wont “settle” for rice is baseless, but then again i cant refute it. its not about what rice wants…its just how many spots they have and there is alot of people that are well qualified so somebody has to do somehting that sets them apart from all the others.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that Rice is much more competitive for applicants from Houston. I would not be surprised if they could fill their class solely of well-qualified Houston students. </p>
<p>When I was in Houston, the prevailing notion about Rice admissions was that it was eccentric: person x knew some person y from Bellaire High School with a 1600 SAT and 2400 SAT II (and so forth) and that person was rejected. We all hear cases like these, but I am willing to bet that nearly any out-of-state student with the requisite stats has a good shot at Rice. For Houston (and Texan?) applicants, the odds of acceptance are significantly lower.</p>
<p>Edit: One could even speculate that admissions standards are slightly lower for out-of-state applicants.</p>
<p>Facts: Rice is one of the top colleges in the nation (17th USNWR).
Rice COA is about 10k less than other highly selective colleges.
Rice offers substantial merit scholarships, a rarity for schools of it’s<br>
rank.
Rice/Baylor is an incredible 8-yr medical program.</p>
<p>Question: Would the top 10% of Rice applicants consider turning down more selective schools to attend Rice for 20k less per year?</p>
<p>Answer: They’d be crazy not to. I find it very difficult to believe that Rice turns down well qualified applicants because it has “Tufts syndrome”.</p>
<p>Recall that Harvard, Yale, and Princeton offer attractive aid programs as well.</p>
<p>In addition, cost and overall rank of the university are not the only considerations that one must take into account when choosing a school. Some universities, whether ranked overall lower or higher than Rice, may have stronger programs in which the student is interested. For instance, I can imagine MIT being attractive in several areas that Rice cannnot match, and perhaps vice versa.</p>
<p>Rice may not suffer from Tufts Syndrome, but that does not prevent them from occasionally rejected a very qualified applicant for one who may be less qualified, but definitely wants to come to Rice.</p>
<p>At any rate, Tufts Syndrome cannot apply to deferrees from ED, since students admitted under ED must matriculate.</p>
<p>nspeds,
All that you say is true, but unfortunately doesn’t address the points I was trying to get across: that it is unlikely that Rice turns down the top candidates because it thinks they will matriculate elsewhere; and that many students accepted to Rice and other selective schools may include COA as a factor in which college they will choose to attend. </p>
<p>Yes, HYP have excellent NEED based aid. Rice has 100% Need based aid and MERIT aid for those who don’t qualify for financial aid.</p>
<p>Of course cost and rank are not the only things considered by applicants, I never implied that. What I was trying to say was that Rice is a top school and that in addition it may cost considerably less than others of similar quality. Is cost a factor in college selection? That depends on your personal situation, but at close to 50k per year for top privates, it likely is for most people.</p>
<p>Yes, Rice turns down well qualified applicants for the same reason that HYP or any other highly selective school does, because it has more applicants than it needs to fill it’s freshman class, not because it has “Tufts syndrome”, that was my point.</p>
<p>(OKay…someone has to explain to me how to quote on this board.) But I agree with the following from nspeds: </p>
<p>“When I was in Houston, the prevailing notion about Rice admissions was that it was eccentric: person x knew some person y from Bellaire High School with a 1600 SAT and 2400 SAT II (and so forth) and that person was rejected. We all hear cases like these, but I am willing to bet that nearly any out-of-state student with the requisite stats has a good shot at Rice. For Houston (and Texan?) applicants, the odds of acceptance are significantly lower. Edit: One could even speculate that admissions standards are slightly lower for out-of-state applicants.”</p>
<p>I think this is essentially true. AND I also think this is appropriate and not at all unfair on the part of Rice University. Rice is a private university who wishes to enhance their brand recognition nationally. They absolutely must create a geographically diverse student body or risk being reduced to a regional institution. Houston is a big city (I mean BIG) spread across 3 counties…and we have excellent schools. Rice is so small that I agree it would be easy to completely fill a freshman class with outstanding Houstonians, with hundreds, if not more, to spare. But how uninteresting would that be? After all, admit it…one of things that is so enticing about Rice is that the school provides the opportunity to be with so many different people from different places.</p>
<p>When I was in Houston, the prevailing notion about Rice admissions was that it was eccentric: person x knew some person y from Bellaire High School with a 1600 SAT and 2400 SAT II (and so forth) and that person was rejected. We all hear cases like these, but I am willing to bet that nearly any out-of-state student with the requisite stats has a good shot at Rice. For Houston (and Texan?) applicants, the odds of acceptance are significantly lower.</p>
<p>^That situation of the person is true. And I believe that the standards for out of state are lower because Rice’s primary applicant pool is from Houston area. It’s not like Stanford where a ton of people are from the Palo/San Fran area… =/</p>
<p>i agree with all of you…just not the part that people are rejected because they are pretty much “overqualified” because they will go somewhere else. :D</p>
<p>You will find this trend at many competitive schools; Harvard probably has higher standards for Massachusetts residents, as does Columbia for New York. It should be noted, though, that schools like UNCH, UVA, and the UCs, prefer in-state residents. One could draw the inference that their goal is not to engender diversity; given the size of the studentry at all those schools, I often do wonder what their goals are. What makes Rice attractive is not only its diversity, but its small class sizes.</p>
<p>serge - I agree… I also don’t buy into the ‘Tufts syndrome’ thing. If it were a Tuft’s thing, we would see highly qualified OOS candidates deferred or rejected as well. Simba’s numbers show that isn’t the case. It is definitely a case of BIG city/BIG state, tiny highly desirable school and too many local applications… which ultimately drives the local admit rate down.</p>
<p>(Hey what do ya know…we agree on something.)</p>
<p>Note also that this gives Rice a strategic advantage in USNews rankings. They can make their admissions seem highly selective merely from the plethora of local applicants they reject; in addition, they can inflate their SAT averages since you can bet that nearly every Houstonian valedictorian will apply to Rice. That Rice can afford to be locally selective grants them the ability to accept less qualified applicants without fear of jeapordizing their USNews ranking.</p>
<p>I agree with what you say, Nspeds, but every selective college gets the same advantage. Most colleges that seek a diverse group of students are more selective for the local residents - and get the same “advantage” in the rankings. Rice is no different. My old memory isn’t what it used to be - but I believe the Rice charter used to specify that half the places be set aside for Texas residents. I’m not sure if that is in there anymore… Texas has a lot of residents, and most kids end up (or prefer?) to go to school within 300 miles of home - that means there are a lot of Texas applicants to Rice. I’m sure Harvard, Duke, etc have the same situtation.</p>