Admission to Yale College as a Finnish international student?

Chance Me / Match Me
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<p>Hey there!</p>

<p>So I’ve been scouring the internet for information on the whole application process into Yale and some other top colleges and I’ve found a lot of information concerning the whole subject. But I’m having a hard time placing my own country’s grading and the extracurricular activities, which I have here, into context. </p>

<p>Because of that, I would love some help from you guys. Preferably people with experience with the application process of the Ivies like Yale or even former students. The point of all this is, that I want to know if I actually even have a remote chance of being admitted into any of the top schools, or am I just wasting time and A LOT of money translating my school documents into English, taking the SAT’s and getting teacher recommendations from my teachers here in Finland.</p>

<p>My biggest concern right now is that does Yale Admissions Office actually have any information on the Finnish school and grading system etc.? Or do I have to make a presentation for them, so that they actually understand what the grade “Laudatur” (Best grade for the top 5% of the students in the whole country) means and how the matriculation examination and other things in the system work? Or can I safely assume, that they understand the final reports and degrees which I hand out to them?</p>

<p>To make it easier for you to give me advice on this, I’ll make an outline of myself as a student and a person:</p>

<p>-Male/19</p>

<p>-Aiming for 2200+ on SAT and 700+ on SAT maths level 1 and world history. These shouldn’t be a challenge, as what I’ve seen from the practice tests, most of it is far easier than the matriculation examination here in Finland (which is full of essays and student input questions, instead of just ticking the right answer). So theoretically speaking, let’s assume that my SAT is around 2200 and subjects 700 with a error margin of 100+/-.</p>

<p>-On my 3rd year (lasts 4 years) of combined academic upper secondary education and vocational college. This means that I’m studying in two schools at the same time (normally doing just one of them takes 3-4 years and doing two usually takes 5-6 years). After graduating I receive the upper secondary education certificate, vocational school certificate (which makes me an IT professional) and the matriculation examination certificate.</p>

<p>-The Finnish academic upper secondary education roughly equals (at least according to Wikipedia) to the last two years of American high school plus what in the USA would be a two-year Community or Junior College.</p>

<p>-I’ve done paid work in the summers and part-time while studying to fund my living, book purchases etc. for several years. The jobs range from aiding handicapped people in their everyday life to work in amusement parks in the summer.</p>

<p>-I’ve done weightlifting, gymnastics and tricking for around 5 years. Haven’t competed as the Finnish culture doesn’t really concentrate on competition in any field unless you’re on the Olympic level etc.</p>

<p>-I have a theatre hobby, which has lasted for 6-7 years. I have done projects ranging from little school shows to large budget (on the Finnish scale ^^) TV-shows.</p>

<p>-I’ve done a charity project with my colleagues in which we gathered and donated 10,000 euros to child cancer patients in a local hospital.</p>

<p>-I’m a board member of the Finnish Social Democratic Party Youths of my city. (Not the actual party, but a youth organisation which holds allegiance to the Social Democratic Party (SDP).</p>

<p>-I’ve been a camp leader on many Prometheus Camps, for 15-18 year-old youths and also acted as an instructor for new camp leaders for several years. Prometheus Camps are politically and religiously unaffiliated coming-of-age camps.</p>

<p>-I’ve done internships at local IT-firms and acted as an assistant secretary for the Red Cross of my city.</p>

<p>-I come from a pretty poor background. My family earns less than 30k a year and a large bulk of my salary goes for the family.</p>

<p>-I’ve won a few stipends during my school career, but they’re not really a big deal back here</p>

<p>-I’m very social and I dislike subjects like maths, chemistry and physics while I love subjects like history, psychology, social studies, biology. I’m still getting good grades in maths, but I still hate it.</p>

<p>-I plan on double majoring.</p>

<p>So putting this all into context, do I have any chance in getting into Yale or the other Ivies? I believe my academic performance (going to two schools at the same time and performing well in both of them on local and national level) is good enough, but how about my extracurriculars? In Finland we don’t have any clubs or writing competitions (or at least I’ve not heard of them) so I’m not sure if I’m cut out for applying with my current stats.</p>

<p>Oh and If/when I score high on my SAT, do I still need to take a test to demonstrate my skill in the english language?</p>

<p>I’ll link some info about the Finnish education system if I didn’t explain something clearly enough:
<a href=“Education in Finland - Wikipedia”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Finland&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>This is a huge ass post. Kudos to anyone who actually bothers to read and help me out! <3 </p>

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<p>So the odds for ANYONE from anywhere to get into Yale are very, very small. But I will say that they probably get very few applicants from Finland, and they do like a diverse student body, just like everyplace else does. You can certainly add explanation of the Finnish education system in “additional information” for your application. Look at the individual college websites for their requirements for other testing, but I would think the average Finnish student would do fine on the TOEFL or whatever they required (my kid spent a summer on a study abroad with a Finnish family and then a semester at U of Helsinki, so I am familiar with how well everyone in Finland speaks English!). </p>

<p>So is it a waste of your time? No.</p>

<p>That said, there are many, many other great colleges in the US besides Yale and the Ivies. Don’t just get pulling in by a prestigious name… that said, I also know there is no tuition at U of Helsinki. Yale (and most US colleges) are going to be much pricier. Even with good financial aid, it is hard to beat “free” with minimal travel expenses. If you apply to colleges in the US, you will want to apply to those that offer need based aid to internationals and meet need. This is a thread you may want to read:</p>

<p><a href=“Looking for colleges&full need-based fin aid to apply to - International Students - College Confidential Forums”>Looking for colleges&full need-based fin aid to apply to - International Students - College Confidential Forums; </p>

<p>I thought there was a thread somewhere on FA for internationals (just on that topic), but I didn’t see it right offhand. Maybe someone else can find it and link to it.</p>

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<p>Thank you intparent!</p>

<p>I realize that the odds are very small for even the most competent people, but I’m concerned with the fact, that do I realistically have any odds AT ALL with my academics and EC’s at the moment. As In, am I wasting time gathering recommendations and high SAT scores for top colleges or could I actually stand a chance in the competition with my current status?</p>

<p>Yes, english is a pretty strong language among the Finnish students and I’ve achieved a Laudatur in the matriculation examination, making me top 5% of all the Finnish students who also took the exam. So I believe I wouldn’t struggle too much with the TOEFL etc. </p>

<p>Did your kid enjoy his time being here by the way? It’s really fantastic that people from other countries are also interested in Finland!</p>

<p>You’re right about the tuition, but books etc. still do cost even here in Finland. And seeing as how poor I am, I can only apply to need based financial aid, that meets my needs, which is one of the reasons I’m aiming for Yale (aside from extensive liberal arts education they give), as I am led to believe, that they offer aid like that. I’ve also looked at other colleges, but Yale just seems like a perfect match for my needs as a student. But of course you can suggest alternatives ^^</p>

<p>Thanks for the tips!</p>

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<p>Any other tips or analysis before I go #yolo on the CommonApp?</p>

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<p>Realize that the forum you are posting in is populated with high school students playing guessing game and unlikely to know international chances or research on Finland. You got lucky with inparent answering. </p>

<p>Yale and other top U.S. colleges have admissions officers who specialize in internationals. It is their job and their business to know about the education system in various countries. In addition you school will need to send a report with data about the school. In addition, you will include scores and information on national examinations you have taken.</p>

<p>I do not think it is realistic to expect that you will have no cost going to Yale. If you can get accepted or not I have no idea. Does anyone at your school ever apply to the US? You should contact EducationUSA for advice and assistance with your application process.
<a href=“http://www.educationusa.info/Finland”>http://www.educationusa.info/Finland&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Your counselor will need to provide a detailed profile of the academic system in Finland, your school’s place within it, your place within your school and within the country’s system. The fact you got the Laudatur will have to be explained and emphasized, as would the non competitive nature of your culture (this may hurt you since American colleges want prizes and awards).</p>

<p>You should realize that students don’t just apply to one college.
They apply to several safeties (for internationals, there are no safeties, so they must apply to some colleges that admit 60+% students or where they qualify for guaranteed honors), 3-5 matches, then only do they add reaches and crapshoot colleges (like Yale, where selectivity is so high even the most accomplished applicants are denied.)</p>

<p>Don’t assume the SAT is easy just because the questions are easy. The test is geared toward 10th-11th grade levels, with about 1/3 questions at the 7-9th grade level. It is MEANT to be like that. The test actually wants to see how fast and accurately you can answer and it trips many internationals who, like you, only see the academic level. not only do you need to be fast and accurate but also rank high <em>in relation to all test-takers</em>.
Plan to prepare using preparation books, number2.com (free website), and “Real SAT’s”.</p>

<p>Take Math2, not Math1: Math1 is virtually useless and the curve is wicked. Take World History (study seriously through sparksnotes) and another subject (English Literature? A Foreign Language? Foreign Languages are only tested at A2 level so the test should be rather straightforward.)</p>

<p>What you’re doing with the vocational school is called being “dual enrollment” in the US. It’s seen very positively.</p>

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<p>BrownParent: I realize that most of the people here probably are U.S. High School students, but you can never know if there are any international people hanging around :)</p>

<p>I was wondering, would It be too much If I sent the admission offices an email inquiring about what do they actually know about the education in Finland?</p>

<p>And I’ve not heard of a single person in my school applying anywhere outside of Finland, let alone one of the top universities. From what I know, very few Finnish students from my City or even the whole country ever apply to U.S., so I’m pretty much alone with this project. This also means that my school counselors are also very unfamiliar with the CommonApp and this whole GPA and school ranking things etc. (We don’t have any of that in Finland) so I guess I’ll have to give them a lot of advice on what information they need to submit.</p>

<p>As for the financial aid, If Yale isn’t outright lying, the expenses for attending won’t be more than a few thousand at max with the income my family has. Even still, I’m doing part-time jobs while studying and on summer breaks to save up some money for studying if/when I get admitted.</p>

<p>Thanks for the educationUSA link! Didn’t even know that existed.</p>

<p>MYOS1634: Same question which I asked BrownParent: Would it be too much if I asked the admission offices on how much they know about Finland, so I can then give them information on my CommonApp about the subject and also advice my counselor on what to tell them about the school(s) I’m attending?</p>

<p>I fully realize that one does not apply to just one college. I will be applying to other colleges on the RD, but I was planning on applying to Yale in the SCEA, so I will know whether I’m admitted or not before the RD.</p>

<p>I’ve taken the practice test on Collegeboard scoring 2200 total on it, but of course the real test might be harder with all the pressure and stuff. I’m not underestimating the test at all, as it is challenging in it’s own right with the time limits, but on the flip-side, choosing from 5 options sounds a lot more simple than writing detailed essays for 6+ hours for each subject which you take in the matriculation examination in Finland. </p>

<p>Would the so called “Blue book” be a good choice for prepping? I was thinking I would take Math level 2, World history (We aren’t taught that much about U.S history here) and perhaps English lit, if I decide to take 3. I only know Finnish, Swedish and English as foreign languages as I couldn’t fit a 4th language in my 10-hour schooldays unfortunately.</p>

<p>But from what I’ve seen, SAT scores don’t really seem to matter as much as it seems. Of course I need to score around the 2000’s but looking at the Yale admission statistics, 25% of the Freshmen had 27-31 on their ACT and even 15% of SAT takers had scored 600-690 on the 3 sections. From what I’ve understood, your essays and recs play a much larger role in the app process along with your EC’s than the tests, or am I wrong?</p>

<p>Thanks for defining that “Dual enrollment” thing! Makes it a lot easier to explain my situation from now on.</p>

<p>I hope I’m not a pain in the ass, thanks a lot for your advice!</p>

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<p>Ah forgot to tag you guys in my post. If it makes any difference. Still a bit new to this forum format. I really appreciate all your help!</p>

<p>@MYOS1634 and @BrownParent</p>

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<p>From the Yale website:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p><a href=“http://admissions.yale.edu/faq/international-students-faqs#t182n1734”>http://admissions.yale.edu/faq/international-students-faqs#t182n1734&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>From the freshman profile on the site, there is a finnish student in the class of 2017, so I expect the AO’s are familiar with the education system there.</p>

<p><a href=“http://admissions.yale.edu/applying-yale-international-student”>http://admissions.yale.edu/applying-yale-international-student&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>It looks like tagging brings the post to notifications. I wouldn’t email Yale at this point, see the quote above. Also see what EducationUSA says.</p>

<p>Don’t underestimate the SAT. Those lower scores may very well belong to special admits that the college has special desire/need for: athletes, legacies, etc, or that have other extraordinary features.</p>

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<p>The lower scores belong to students who are in need at or dearly wanted by the college (athletes, legacies) or who have a very good reason (had to overcome terrible odds even to make it to that score). International students must be at least at the median but typically would need to be into the top 25%. For Yale, you should aim for 2100 at the very least. Every single element can get you rejected but that’s not sufficient, you also need to have a compelling combination of factors AND be better than everyone else. Essentially, you need to be the best academically from your country and the most compelling, too.
You should absolutely apply, but start reading The Fiske Guide, or Insider’s Guide to the Colleges, or The Princeton Review’s Best Colleges and build a good list with half colleges that seem “easy to get into” to you - I can guarantee that they will turn out to be harder to get into than you thought, especially if you have a lot of financial need. Some colleges can only fully fund 3 or 4 international students… out of hundreds who apply.</p>