Of course I have wonderful relationships with my Christian friends! But they are not my grandchildren.
I picture a scenario (which a cousin endures right now) where the grandchildren attend church and a Christian nursery school. She sees them - and they tell her all about baby Jesus. That is awkward for her. They go to church with the maternal grandparents on Sunday - she is excluded. There will be no Bar or Bat Mitzvahs. That is disappointing. She and her husband do their best to maintain a relationship with their son and his family - but it is challenging and I see their sadness.
That is squarely on the shoulders of their son. If he know how important it was to them, maybe he’d make more of an effort to educate his children in his religion.
@rockvillemom, I understand your concerns about exclusion. That would worry me, too. And I realize that beliefs are important to me, but not the beliefs necessarily associated with one religion or another. I’m a very moral person, and what I consider to be the immorality of my husband and his father and my ex-BIL bothers me a lot. It breaks my heart that my husband and his father have been willing to do things that could get me in legal trouble, and their willingness to do those things are, at some level, a matter of their beliefs.
As I said, nothing has happened yet and I adore son’s gf. But @chocchipcookie and I, and I would assume many other parents, do worry about the family dynamics in a mixed marriage. I have been nothing but warm and friendly to his gf - I genuinely like her and support the relationship. I am simply wondering out loud about the challenges that lie ahead and how to navigate them.
DH and I are both Jewish. I’m a first generation American, the child of 2 Holocaust survivors, so for me marrying a Jew was the only acceptable option, but I grew up in NYC where finding a Jewish man wasn’t difficult. S1 just got married to a non-Jewish woman, and we’re fine with it. My mother not so much. When she heard she wasn’t Jewish, her reaction was to turn away from me, and then tell me that she would never have allowed something like that. I understood where she was coming from given her history.
My DIL was raised in a very strict Christian home, but has rejected her upbringing and considers herself to have no religion at this point. She, her mother, and sisters celebrate Christmas, but not at church. Her father and his family (her parents are divorced) are still very religious. S1 was bar mitzvah’d, attended services on holidays through HS, but hasn’t since then. He never got involved with Hillel in college. He does fast on Yom Kippur, keep dietary laws during Passover, and lights the menorah at Chanukah. DIL fasts in solidarity with him, attends and participates in Seder, etc. She even bakes challah and hamantashen. They were married by a rabbi because that was important to S1.
I have no idea what will happen when they have children, and have not dared to ask. I would hope that the two of them have already discussed this. I know I will send my grandchildren Chanukah presents, but what, if any, religion they will be raised in is unknown. I do know that I will love and cherish those grandchildren regardless of their religion.
But doesn’t that come down to your cousins sons faith choice? I guess what I’m saying is even if your son marries a Christian it doesn’t mean he will necessarily throw away his Jewish faith and not teach his kids about being a Jew… and if he does how strong was his faith to start with?
Rockvillemom, I think you have done a wonderful job of helping us understand your concerns from the Jewish grandparent perspective. I totally get it and it would be difficult. If that does ever happen to you, I encourage you to go to church with your family once in awhile and just know it is still Gods house and he doesn’t care. Then ask your son if you could all go to temple together every so often. Make yourself not be on the periphery.
@intparent - yes, that article was horrifying. It hits me very personally as I hid my relationship with an African American man from my parents for several years. It ultimately was not the right relationship for me and it ended. I would never do anything like that to my sons.
I have a cousin who married an Indian girl. Her family did not attend the wedding. Over time, her mother and brother made contact with them. But her father had not spoken to her since the wedding. I think it is sad and his loss. I think some of the people on thus thread would be surprised by how divisive this issue is in many cultures.
I’ve spoken of this before, but my in-laws have made it very clear that the fact that I’m not religious is not OK with them. Mr R is agnostic but they don’t know that. I’m an atheist but I don’t know if they know that either. A few days before my wedding, my father-in-law tried to heavily pressure me into including god in my ceremony. It wasn’t OK and I was very upset about the whole thing because it was a discussion we had already had and I was already stressed enough.
It will get even more interesting when we have kids as they will absolutely not be raised in a church or any other place of worship. I will not baptize nor do anything else to appease my in-laws.
My parents couldn’t care less about what religion or whatever I married. Though, they probably would’ve piped up if they thought I was marrying someone in a cult or something…
ETA: My 4 grandparents come from 4 different faiths: Catholic, Jewish, Church of England, and atheist. We’re used to intermarriage. When my mom’s parents married, they were considered to be of 2 different races so I guess we’re used to the interracial thing, too (and most of my cousins are mixed race).
I once worked with a man who could not answer the question- would you rather your daughter marry a successful black man who treated her like gold or an unemployed white man who beat her.
I think people like that are sick.
As to the religion question- my D will be getting married soon and will not get married in the church she was raised. That is her choice and it is no one but her and her future husbands business. My D has found another religion that fits her beliefs. If anyone in the family was to disown her shame on them. If other family members stood by and allowed it to happen shame on them.
"I know a few mixed faith families and they try to include both religions. They celebrate all the holidays, they have menorahs and christmas trees…
This is how my H and I have handled it. My parents never said any of the horrid things my friend’s parents and some of my relatives said to their kids ( all the disowning stuff.) My parents were completely supportive of my relationship with H before we got married and they love him as a son. All the parents I know who said the horrid stuff never went through with it, including my Aunt. My mother did say, thank god B got married before you did because I never would have heard the end of it.
Just in my family (first cousins, kids) we now have 8 mixed marriages. All the kids of these marriages, unlike the OP’s raised their kids in the Jewish religion but still celebrate our spouses holidays. And my cousin B, who married a Catholic, daughter married into a very Conservative Jewish family.
We have had Passover Seders which have fallen on Good Friday and we serve fish for those who it is important to, including our in-laws who often join us.
I am Jewish and live in a very Jewish community. I grew up in Brooklyn. I have seen many couples who are mixed in terms of religion. And their marriages have taken many different paths.
Two of my first cousins (one male and one female) married non-jews and both of their spouses converted to Judaism. In a reform congregation, children are considered Jewish if either of their parents are Jewish. They kept Judaism as their religion inside their homes, but celebrated Christians holidays with extended family members.
I have seen friends who have decided to raise children in both religions. Some of these children were raised to consider themselves half Jewish/ half Christian. Others were raised in both religions, but were told that they can decide what religion they may want to be when they are older.
Other families are non-religious and only celebrate religious holidays with their families, not on their own.
Ultimately, it will be up to your son and his wife to decide what path to take. Your son needs to be comfortable with their mutual decision and he will need to speak up and make his wishes known. Religion may or may not be important to him, but it is his right (just as much as his wife’s right) to determine how to raise the children and what religion they should follow.
As a parent, the one thing I would mettle in would be to encourage the couple to have these conversations prior to getting engaged and to come up with a plan that they will both be comfortable with.
If my son marries his current g/f, they will be of different religions & races. I’m more concerned that each has a tendency towards depression.
Friends who know me well were concerned about the religious differences. Son went to Jewish day school did a full bar mitzvah, observant camps, kosher home. But she is lovely. It is his life. My parents were opposed to me marrying my grad school b/f, cuz of religious difference, yet he was a wonderful,person. The trajectory,of my life may well have been quite different.
So, no matter what, I will support my son. Who,knows? A mixture of Asian and Jewish, wonderful,parents on her side, could be great.
A number of interracial marriages in my extended family: black-white, asian-white, and plenty of biracial cousins, nieces/nephews. After the initial surprise when first meeting the couple, later family gatherings elicit a yawn.
I’ll flash back for you a few decades ago in my family.
In the early/mid 70’s my sister who was 5 years older - and who had no other behavior/attitude problems and was a good student at our local community college started dating a black man. When my parents found out - especially my dad - he read her the riot act - so she left the house. We were raised Catholic. Basically, my sister was ousted from the family and ended up moving to California from Michigan where she lived with an aunt who was willing to take her in. She didn’t talk to my dad at all and rarely to my mom.
That sister ended up not with that black man, but another. They married. My dad never forgave her. This was especially puzzling to me because my dad, a Catholic born and raised man, married my mom 15 years younger than her (oh my!) and she was Jewish. They agreed that “the kids” - 4 of us would be raised Catholic. My mom put her religion aside for the most part, and supported us in our faith, but did not usually attend church with us - dad took us.
Anyway, my sister married the black man who was a nice man - but his color apparently defined him and her mistake to my parents. Several years later, my dad was dying. Still had never talked to my sister. I vowed not to have him die feeling this way, nor my sister feeling she wasn’t loved my him. As he was very ill, I got her on the phone and asked him if she could speak with him - he nodded yes, she said whatever she wanted to say to him - nice things I"m sure but I couldn’t hear those words and my dad cried a bit. I know he still loved her but just couldn’t forgive her departure from our family “norm”. Years wasted over what? So senseless to me.
By the way, my sister is still married to that black man 30+ years later. She and he are clearly happy.
As I said, four of us were raised Catholic. Years after my dad died my mom started attending the synogogue again. My oldest sister doesn’t practice any religion. My older brother has occasionally followed his wife to a church service here and there (she has switched religions a couple of times…) - but rarely. I raised my kids Catholic and they went to Catholic schools but while I’m the most Catholic, I have many problems with the faith and am looking for a new church. My youngest brother married a Jewish woman and while he hasn’t converted they celebrate many Jewish traditions.
Point being (after that long story) is that where you start and where you end up maybe not as important as all the time in-between. To make it an “all or nothing” might be a huge regret later in life.
Both my husband and I come from Jewish families; not uber religious, but attend synagogue during the high holidays, celebrate the holidays with both families as we all live in the same city, and all the children attended Sunday & Hebrew school and had Bar and Bat Mitzvahs.
Both my son and daughter are engaged/new married to non Jewish people. My husband and I adore both of their fiancees, but do know that our son’s children will not be Jewish. His wife does attend church a couple of times a month and her parents are rather religious; I still wonder what her dad thinks of our son, and guess he is not happy with his daughter’s choice in a spouse. Before they got engaged, my son and DIL talked a good deal about how they would handle religion. While they have said they will share both religions with the kids, my son doesn’t celebrate the holidays or go to synagogue unless he is in our city with us. So, my DIL will be the one responsible for the children’s religious training and she is not taking them to the local synagogue!
My daughter on the other hand, is planning to have a Jewish household and my future SIL is ok with that, or at least he says he is! He is anti religion at this time as he had religion shoved down his throat as a child and didn’t like that. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out over time, but at the moment, he loves my daughter enough to do what ever she wants
Interesting thought my daughter had about a year ago when we were talking about religion. She said if her fiancee was not interested in attending synagogue with her, she would not want to be the only parent dealing with the children’s religious training; in otherwords, she didn’t want to attend services while her husband stayed at home. She would rather find another religion they could both agree on, but there would be religion in her home, it just may not be the one she grew up with. She is having a Jewish wedding and I understand my future SIL’s parents have concerns, and I totally understand where they are coming from. That said, they enjoyed my son’s wedding last month and meeting all the family, so hopefully all will work out.
My DIL made sure her wedding including both the Reverend from her church and a local Rabbi. I felt the Rabbi actually did most of the service, and people from both families enjoy the ceremony. If it had been up to my son to take care of finding a Rabbi, it might never had been done. DIL has gone out of her way to include Judaism in their wedding, and I can only hope that continues throughout the marriage. If they lived in our city, I know they would participate in the holidays with us; unfortunately they do not live close enough to join us.
My grandmother (Episcopalian) almost had a stroke when her son (my father) married a Catholic. My mother’s family was not too pleased as she had to get married outside the alter. When my sister was born and baptized catholic, stroke number 2. When my brother was born a year later, they didn’t even tell my grandmother he was baptized (took her out of town). By the time I arrived, it was no big deal and my grandmother could attend first communions without incident. Oh, by the way, her husband, my grandfather, was Catholic! She wouldn’t sign the consent for the children to be raised catholic, my grandfather was sort of out of the church except he always kept going to mass at 6 am. Both sons? Now Catholic by choice (and those converts are serious Catholics). She’s rolling over in her grave.
Rockvillemom, your cousin has to give a little for her grandchildren. So what if they want to talk about Jesus? It’s important to them to share their school and their lives. Christians learn about the old testament. She can still share her stories of Ester and Moses and Isaac with them. They’d love the stories and traditions.
I was a nanny to 3 kids with a Catholic grandmother and a Jewish grandmother (parents didn’t seem to care much about religion, but were trying). Catholic-raised mother and I tried to do all the Jewish traditions and teach them, the but grandmother was a little too old to help much and the Jewish-raised father didn’t care much. So no bar/bat mitzvahs (although they attended a boatload of them), but no confirmation either. They ended up sort of Unitarian.
If it is important to you for them to have a Jewish presence in their lives, make it happen. Make the holidays learning experiences. It’s never going to be perfect, but you don’t have to just sit back.
One of my kids is Chinese, so interracial dating is almost a given. Current boyfriend is Italian, which we consider a stretch, but the fact that he cheers for the Yankees is very hard to accept. He’ll have to convert.
I want to pursue a path that is loving and inclusive. I respect my sons’ rights to make their own decisions. I struggle with what is my responsibility and my sons’ responsibility to their heritage?
We have not discussed the issue very much, partly because I struggle to formulate a position. I dated a non-Jewish African American man for years in secret. Doesn’t that make me quite the hypocrite to say marry within your faith? But marriage is challenging even with similar backgrounds. But then, plenty of marriages between people of the same faith end in divorce too.
It’s easy to be at one extreme or the other on this issue. The rigid parents who disown their child - not much thought there. And if the issue is easy in your family - lots of blended couples - that’s great. But within my family and my husband’s, our generation has virtually no interfaith marriages and our parents’ generation had none. And now as I watch our sons’ generation - the differences are staggering - as interfaith marriages have been the norm.
Considering how challenging marriage is, I’m happy that my son and DIL are good to and for each other, that they’re happy, that they’re a loving and supportive couple. Given all those things, I’m hopeful that they can handle any issues their differing religions may cause and that we will follow their example in being supportive, loving and inclusive.
