<p>I didn’t see anyone mention the fact that it is very rewarding to the mom to feel needed and useful by helping her daughter. My dad does the same for several of my siblings and he enjoys it immensely. The problem is that it stunts their “growth” and they don’t become actual adults. Your sister has always relied on your mother bailing her out, and your mother gets enjoyment and satsifaction out of doing so. It is not likley this will change. It actually hurts your sister more than it helps. I wonder what happens to these “children” when their mother/father finally passes away at the age of 50+/60+ and they have to support themselves for the FIRST time in their lives.</p>
<p>NJ Sue- Letting a good mother be a mother- It means (right or wrong) the mother has earned the right to decide about what is best for her child. BTW the mother is working on full information and knows much more about the situation than a few posts could ever hope to convey. As mentioned it may not be fair to the other daughter but it appears she has been rewarded in other ways like stability and maturity. In a sense the left out daughter is a foundation for the mother. She should feel proud.</p>
<p>lje62: let’s separate out some of the issues.</p>
<p>If you are truly concerned with your mother going into some dank nursing home, on the government dime, because she threw all her money at Deadbeat Sis, then talk about that - and only talk about that. Do not talk about how unfair it is that Sis is getting more help, that the condo is below market rate, that Sis is an overweight heifer with no car insurance. Do not say one word about it, at least isofar as your mother is concerned.</p>
<p>If you are worried about ‘your’ inheritance, well, your mom could wind up spending five years in a nursing home and not have an estate left anyway. She could kick the bucket tomorrow. Ultimately, however, it’s a bit crass when grown children start worrying about ‘their’ inheritance, as if they have any moral right to that money, or legal right that is not contained in a Will.</p>
<p>If you are worried about having to bail out Mom, then do with your mom what we always tell parents to do with their kids regarding college: tell them long before any actual expense is involved what you are willing to pay and not willing to pay. </p>
<p>Find a good financial planner (perhaps even one who is also an elder law attorney) and have your mom go in for a few hours. Then, get the siblings together and give the following speech: “Mom, we have our own families, expenses, and retirements to think about. As much as we love you, we simply cannot jeopardise our own futures for you; nor can we, or even want to, bail you out if you go broke bailing out Sis. We’ve all run the math on how we can help you without ruining our own chances for a secure retirement; between all of us, we can probably manage $20k to help you out. But after you’ve burned through that, the bank is closed. We will NOT allow Sis’ irresponsibility to take down this entire family if she bleeds you dry. None of us want to see you in the Roach Special Nursing Home because you supported Sis, but that’s your decision. Do with this information what you will.” </p>
<p>(You do not have to offer her help, but I think that it strengthens your case to state in advance what you are able to do without hurting your own future, so that Mom doesn’t engage in the wishful thinking that her successful kids will ride to the rescue with gobs of cash.)</p>
<p>I am not worried about what my potential inheritance might be and my other sisters aren’t either. We are just sick of oldest sis taking advantage of our mother.
My husband and I have talked about it and we would take mom to live with us rather than have her go to nursing home ,but we don’t know if this will be a viable option when it comes down to it.
Sister 2 seems a heck of a lot more bitter about the situation than the rest of us. We all have issues with her though.
It’s so odd that she turned out the way she is when we were all brought up in the same household</p>
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<p>VeryHappy, I can totally relate!!!</p>
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<p>I am further down that road than you are with this and you do not want to go there. If there is a united front with your other sibs try to play hard ball with Mom. My mother is now not able to take care of herself and it is shocking how much money has been given to one sibling in an effort to help her out of the multitude of holes that she dug for herself over the years. </p>
<p>Mom was in great shape financially when Dad died and now she is practically broke. The topper is that ne’er-do-well sib doesn’t even bother with Mom now that there is no money…not that the sib bothered much with Mom before. </p>
<p>I have wondered if Mom felt guilt that this kid never got it together. Perhaps she thought that she could make it right. This sib is the ultimate user and she played Mom like a fiddle.</p>
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THIS is what we are on the cusp of. I believe that my first obligation is to make sure that I don’t eventually become a financial burden to my kid but I feel incredible guilt every single day about not throwing a ton of money at my Mother’s situation. My brother feels terribly guilty as well.</p>
<p>Maybe the Mom has nursing home insurance. </p>
<p>My deadbeat brother in law has mastered the art of giving H or his other brothers name and address when he goes to the emergency room. (regular clinics require ID to be seen) This is his sick and twisted way of not being a burden in society while assuming the family owes him something. Fortunately he spends more time in jail than in medical care.</p>
<p>Ariesathena is absolutely right. Her post hits the nail on the head. I know you are venting and it does hit the personal notes all in painful ways when these situations occur, but in order to best address it, one does have to separate out the true issues from the personal ones. Having a qualified financial planner on the scene to give it to your mother straight on what she should do, would be a good thing, along with all of your siblings voicing your concerns. The planner can ask what your mother wants to do in terms of long term care and evaluate if she even has enough to make a go of it, whether some other plans should be made such as asset transfers to make her eligible for Medicaid in 5 years , whether it is important to her to have her assets divided evenly among all of her children, whether this is the way she wants to do things. </p>
<p>It can be a combo of the above too. If enough money is put away for her long term care that is untouchable, she give the rest to your sibling with no problems that way, if that is what she chooses to do. If she wants to put the money in separate categories and just give the one sibling her inheritance early, that could work too.</p>
<p>If something should happen to her and she does need long term care,there is a 5 year look back on her assets and the use of them , and if she has been giving away large sums of money to one of her children, Medicaid can choose to include that back into her estate and refuse to cover nursing home care until it is made up. Yes, I 've seen it happen. I doubt your sibling who is getting those funds will be able to replenish them. So there can be a real concern here.</p>
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<p>The feds will require you to spend virtually your whole estate before they take over with Title 19/Medicaid. This is not a piddling benefit, since the annual cost of a nursing home is north of $70,000, and you can see how quickly out-of-pocket payment for nursing home care could deplete many estates.</p>
<p>You can transfer assets–even to deadbeat sis–so you could make yourself penniless and be qualified for Medicaid on day one of you nursing home admission, but anything transferred to sis or or her siblings within 5 years before admission incurs a penalty–varies from state to state–that defers eligibility for benefits.</p>
<p>Long-term care insurance is tricky. It’s expensive.If you are very affluent, you’ll pay out of pocket for care. If you are low income/low asset, you can’t afford the premium and you’ll be easily eligible for Medicaid. It’s the middle class in between that has to carefully assess the cost of the premium versus potential benefit.</p>
<p>Shakespeare nailed this: King Lear.</p>
<p>The U.S., by the way, is the the only advanced economy where people go bankrupt over medical bills, and medical debit is the number one reason for personal bankruptcy.</p>
<p>latichever: I’m an attorney and am well aware of Medicaid guidelines; what you are forgetting is that many nursing homes do not take Medicaid and will only take private-pay. Likewise, Medicare does not pay for nursing homes at all, and it can be the difference between spending the last few months of life in comfort or in some dank hellhole.</p>
<p>In short, your entire post was non-responsive to what I brought up.</p>
<p>Ack, this is what I get for being on CC and a conference call: assisted living doesn’t take Medicare. It’s all Medicaid and/or private pay. Either way, if you’re private pay, you can pick the best place for yourself. If you’re on Medicare or Medicaid, then you take the best that accepts it. </p>
<p>From what I recall, it is often assisted living that really drains the coffers: people tend to not live more than about six months in a nursing home, but people can be in assisted living for years. </p>
<p>Again, the fundamental point: there’s little reason that Mom should be in Roach Motel Nursing Home or Mold Central Assisted Living because Sis bled her dry. And if Mom outlives her money anyway - well, if she would have had three years in the nice assisted living place, instead of two years, does she not deserve that extra year of being in the good place?</p>
<p>My grandmother just went to a Medicaid paid assisted living facility. It is a very nice place, but my mom had to do plenty of research and applications to find it. She had to have assets of less than 2K and a low income to qualify for it, in our state. Plus she needed to require enough assistance to get there…ie, being broke didn’t just get her there. She is incontinent, has dementia, plus some other issues. Had to have enough need, but what a nice place.</p>
<p>But there’s no reason your mom should be stripped of her assets because of a lazy child.</p>
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I didn’t realize a person can have dementia and still be assiduous in her research.</p>
<p>Krililies, I think busdriver’s mom was searching on behalf of busdriver’s grandmother.</p>
<p>Oh, you’re right. I really should go to bed.</p>
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<p>I work in nursing homes. I travel to nursing homes. In fact, I wrote a book about nursing homes, and have been the keynote speaker at an elder law conference. I’ve probably been in about 50 different nursing homes, and maybe have been to two or three that do not accept Medicaid. They are nursing homes that are part of continuing care communities. These nursing homes don’t even accept private-pay people off the street for long-term care. Your statement that “many” nursing homes will not accept Medicaid is not accurate. </p>
<p>Let’s be precise about Medicare. It will not pay for long-term custodial care, but it is the primary payer for short-term rehab care in nursing homes. If, as is often the case, your rehab stay is in the context of a grave illness, Medicare will be the payer at life’s end. </p>
<p>I was not responding to you, but putting out the information that the chances are you will have to deplete all your assets–whether it’s to a dead beat daughter or out-of-pocket for nursing home care–before Medicaid will kick in. </p>
<p>Another point: there are few great nursing homes, and few dank hellholes. Within any state nursing homes have to meet the same care guidelines. This means that whatever the cosmetic differences, they will all meet the same physical plant guidelines and the same staff to resident ratios. They’re mostly all mediocre. </p>
<p>A poster pointed out that assisted living facilities will not accept Medicaid. This is a shame. The gold standard for human services is to provide them in the least restrictive environment. Many residents in nursing homes do not need the level of care they provide. They would be well served in assisted living, which costs about half of nursing home care. Unfortunately, Medicaid pays for medical facilities–nursing homes, and assisted living is not considered medical. There are signs of change. In Connecticut, for example, there is a pilot program that allows Medicaid payment to six different state funded assisted living facilities. For example: [url=<a href=“http://www.smithfieldgardens.org/index.htm]Home[/url”>http://www.smithfieldgardens.org/index.htm]Home[/url</a>] and [url=<a href=“http://www.smithfieldgardens.org/index_Page4.htm]Affordability[/url”>http://www.smithfieldgardens.org/index_Page4.htm]Affordability[/url</a>]</p>
<p>One point: if the mother pays the sister’s medical bills, it will be because the sister *failed to take reasonable steps to get the required insurance that she knew about and had plenty of opportunities to do.*This is not a bailout due to some unforeseen problem. It’s too bad that the taxpayers and the hospital will have to pick up the tab, but I don’t think the mother has a moral obligation to bail her out.</p>
<p>“I didn’t realize a person can have dementia and still be assiduous in her research.”</p>
<p>Sure you can. But you just might not remember much…</p>
<p>Yep, it was my mom, not my grandmother. I had no idea how much effort, research, and persistence was required. What a paperwork drill. I don’t know how people get through this on their own.</p>
<p>“A poster pointed out that assisted living facilities will not accept Medicaid. This is a shame. The gold standard for human services is to provide them in the least restrictive environment. Many residents in nursing homes do not need the level of care they provide. They would be well served in assisted living, which costs about half of nursing home care. Unfortunately, Medicaid pays for medical facilities–nursing homes, and assisted living is not considered medical. There are signs of change”</p>
<p>In Washington State, Medicaid pays for assisted living homes. It had to be licensed for that, and you had to really need the services (not just be out of money). Some places didn’t take Medicaid, and the really nice ones that did had large waiting lists. But my grandmother only had to wait a month or so for a very decent one.</p>
<p>In Maine, MEDICAID (not Medicare) can be used to pay for assisted living as long as the facility accepts Medicaid and the person qualifies financially and medically (as deemed by a state assessing agency). I’m a geriatric social worker and deal with this all of the time. Medicaid regulations differ vastly from state to state so check with your local Department of Health and Human Services! It’s also important to keep in mind the 5-year look-back period for Medicaid…if a person gives away assets within 5 years of applying for Medicaid, they face a stiff penalty period before they are Medicaid-eligible…which could really mess up a person’s ability to access long term care when they need it.</p>